Allison Tyler Jones: Hi friends. This episode of The Rework is part of a series featuring several of the students from our art of selling art course that we launched for the first time, in the summer of 2021. These students are sharing the big and not so big changes that they’ve made in their business over the last few months. Changes that have scared them, but made a big difference to their competence, their session sales averages, the products that they’re selling, how they speak to their clients, and they also share it the successes they’ve had while doing it scared. I know that you’re going to find their stories just as inspiring as I did. I can’t wait for you to hear their stories because I know you’re going to find them just as inspiring as I did.

Recorded: Welcome to The Rework with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little Rework. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini workshops and behind the scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do The Rework.

Allison Tyler Jones: Welcome back to The Rework. Let me ask you a question, how often are you taking time to really connect with why it is that you’re in the portrait photography business to begin with? Our guest today, Jamie Seymour-Newton, a portrait photographer from Miami, Florida took the time to ask those questions to reconnect with her why. After 25 years in business shooting family portraits, many sessions and school volume portraits, she took a look at her business, her life her schedule, how she was working, and decided there were some things that she really didn’t like. And she wanted to make some changes. She made those changes and they had drastic results for her. She doubled her income last year, she changed the way that she is communicating and building relationships with her clients. And that bravery and those changes have even opened her up to a dream assignment for this summer.

I can’t wait for you to hear the changes that Jaime has made in the hopes that it will inspire you to reconnect with your Hawaii and make some changes of your own. I want to welcome my guest, Jamie Seymour-Newton from Miami, Florida. I’m so grateful that you’re here today Jamie with us to share your wisdom and your knowledge and thanks for being here.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Thank you so much for asking.

Allison Tyler Jones: So tell our listeners a little bit about you your little bit about your business. Give us an idea of what where you’re at what you’re doing.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Okay. So I’m a photographer based out of Miami, Florida. I’ve been married 100 years.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, right.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I’m mama three, my kids are all grown up. I have four rescue dogs, and I’m really into animal advocacy and I’ve fostered lots of dogs. I’ve done a lot of pet photography, donating my time and also that is a big portion of my business today, which I love. I also love relationships and documenting families or people with their pets. And then I also have this little side business of my volume photography schools which I’ve been hanging on for a while. I’ve let one of them go, since our work together, I sold a couple more. And my favorite thing to do in the world is be out in nature, wildlife photography, that’s my thing.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I’ve been in business for 25 years, and I started as a soccer mom out with my little kids playing soccer giving out photos. And then they asked me to do a league of 600 kids.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh my Gosh.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: And that’s how I started. Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. I love it. I love that everybody’s every story is so different, and that you have so many great things blended in with that. So what are some of the recent changes that you’ve made in your business as we’ve kind of worked together in the art of selling art. How has it helped you and then how has that helped you in your business?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Well, I wanted to tell you that right before I took your class it was do or die. I was about ready to go out and get a job because you know I’ve been in business 25 years and I have not been able to make money and I’ve been so busy running around. I don’t know doing what, but just busy.

Allison Tyler Jones: Business has been happening.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah, it’s been very busy. And since I took the art of selling art class, things have changed drastically for me other… One of the biggest things that’s really made a huge difference in my business is really looking at my business, my financials, my cost of goods. I was giving away everything.

Allison Tyler Jones: Because I can hear a little bit that you’re beat yourself up a little bit over that. But unless we look at it, you don’t know that you’re doing that you kind of think you’re doing okay and you were busy.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: So isn’t that? Yeah. So okay, go on. Sorry.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah, for sure. So that was really helpful. And it was eye opening as well, because I have a little bit of a spending problem. So when I would make money, I would be like, “I think it’s time to go get my new Sony camera.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Isn’t that what you do?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Well, next year, no, I’m going to really try to pay myself a salary for the first time.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Yes.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: So some of the other things that the art of selling art has really helped me with is not being afraid of potential customers. When I would have someone call, I would be like, “I’ve got to send him an email really quick. God forbid I have to call them and talk to them in person.” I was being email, forms, contracts, never did consultations. And when they came to my studio, sometimes I’m embarrassed to say now is the first time I spoke with them

Allison Tyler Jones: When they came for the session?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. So hold, please, because I need more information.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Okay.

Allison Tyler Jones: So what you’re saying is that somebody would call you and want to book and instead of picking up the phone and having a combo, it was just easier… I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes. I have a template for everything. “Thank you so much for calling.” This was the first email. “Thank you for calling, fill out this form, tell me all about you and pick some times.” And then I get the form back and I email them back, “Great. We’re set for the time. This is what you need to do.” And it was all email. I was so afraid of my customers. And I would send them my pricing, full disclosure, and then I would shoot for two hours in the studio and when they came for their sale of you in order session, I would be happy with the $500 sale.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, you’re not alone. 100%, you’re not alone. That’s kind of how we’ve been taught to do it, right? Because we have all these new technology, CRM software, all these cool things that we can make these templates and send all these things out. So what was different then, what did you change?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Everything? You know what, I am to the point of, I look forward to talking to my clients not talking to them about my pricing, because I still have fear issues, because we all do different. But just to find out more about them to help create something amazing for them, and no going in exactly who they are and what they call me about. And it’s amazing. And it’s so fun. And I have made really… I have a good feeling these clients are going to be calling me back in years to come because we have a good relationship.

Allison Tyler Jones: I can assure you that they will. So I love that. So you went from this kind of very transactional. “To whom it may concern, show up on this day, wear this. This is how much it’s going to cost, without any kind of context of what any of that meant.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: No love.

Allison Tyler Jones: No love. You needed a layer of love and you didn’t.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so how did that change your sales averages or did it? What was the change from one to the next?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Well, my average sales were anywhere from $600 to maybe $2000. And I am very happy to say that I had a $7,000 sale, and I had a $5000, a $2000.

Allison Tyler Jones: Exponentially different.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah. And I feel good about it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, that’s huge. I think that’s the bigger victory in my mind. Of course, we would like to have higher sales averages, of course, we would like to make more money. But I always felt like if it was dirty, or if it was like, “I had to do like the used car sales tactics. I didn’t want to do it like that.”

Jaime Seymour-Newton: It’s sneaky. “I don’t want to talk to you, here you go.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Right, or the flip side of that, which is like, “Hey, if you buy an 8×10, I’m going to give you some free wallets,” whatever. That kind of thing. I can’t do that. I don’t like that. Can’t we just be moms and talk about how great our kids are and they create something amazing and beautiful for you, and then tell you how much that’s going to be and then come and hang it on your wall.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Right. Because you’re being transparent. And I think that was one of the biggest lessons I learned from you and from the artists selling art is it’s okay to be transparent and it’s okay if they’re not my client anymore. It’s okay.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: And it’s okay to let them go.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Yeah. I don’t know, if you’ve had this experience. Because when I started to become more and more transparent, I found that people didn’t go away mad. They didn’t go away mad like, “How dare you charge that? I’m never darkening your door. I’m going to go talk bad about you.” It was like, “You do that? Oh, really? You make art and then it goes on the wall and then you deliver it and install. Wow, I thought I was just telling you about some digital files.” Okay, well, this wasn’t in the cards for me right now, but now I know where to go when I need that.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: But they were excited. They there wasn’t like a negative thing. They didn’t pick up their person like, “How dare you?” It was, “I didn’t even know this was possible. That wasn’t what I was looking for right now, but now I know where to go when I need that.”

Jaime Seymour-Newton: A couple of clients or potential clients were in shock. They’re like, “That is amazing. I didn’t know photographers that did that. You do all of that?” “Yes.”

Allison Tyler Jones: I’m so excited for you. So you’ve had a good year?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I have. Yeah, it was very life changing.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. So you more than doubled your income last year?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I did.

Allison Tyler Jones: I’m so proud of you.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I have a long way to go. But thank you.

Allison Tyler Jones: No, you don’t have a long way to go. You’ve come a long way. Let’s just celebrate that.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: After 25 years, you can start… So do you see it now? Can you see it?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I can see it. I still struggle with the business side of it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so tell me if we had a genie, if a genie came down and appeared before you and said, “What one thing…” And I know there’s a million things. There’s always a million things. But what one thing would you want to fix in your business? What’s the thing that’s hanging you up now?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah. So the one thing with a lot of little bullet points underneath there, is that okay?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes. Of course. Let’s do it. I love both.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: It is all about the business for me, because I love photography. I love being an artist. But I never took a business class before I started my business. And I didn’t know anything about finances or marketing, bookkeeping, branding, any of that. It’s been a huge learning curve for me. So that if I could have a genie, what I would ask my genie for was a way to execute my pricing and communicating with confidence so the clients value my services. I want my clients to value my photography and be willing to pay my pricing so I could run a successful business and create beautiful art for them.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, I love it. So you’re doing that? You’re doing it?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I am. Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: So after you took the course you raised your prices, and you changed your entire sales process. So rather than how you had been doing it, you switch that around. So then already that’s happening. Your sales averages have gone up and most importantly, I think the most important thing I want to underline is a you are happier in the business. And you’re happier about how you’re doing business and your clients are happier.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I have confidence for the first time.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. So where do you feel like… So when I say genie, and you say, “I really want to execute with my pricing because I don’t feel like I’m confident enough. Where are you still lacking in the confidence?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: On my call. Basically, it’s my inner dialogue. It’s deep rooted. It’s so funny. Okay, I’m going to be completely honest with you. My husband’s office is right next door to me. And we both have home offices. So when I am about ready to call a new client to talk to them about the potential of working together, my husband tells me that when I’m on the phone with them, as I am ready to talk to him about pricing, I do this. I purse my lips and make this [inaudible 00:13:36]. He hears it and that’s my nerve. I didn’t even realize I did that, I was so embarrassed.

Allison Tyler Jones: I’m sure we all have things like that for sure. It might be a pause or it might be, “Um- well.” Yeah, that would have been mind for sure.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah, it’s the pricing, it’s the self-esteem and really just letting go of my inner dialogue and not going there.

Allison Tyler Jones: I need to hear your dialogue, tell me your inner dialogue. What is it saying?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Okay.

Allison Tyler Jones: Is she mean?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Want to go there?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I want to hear it.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: My inner dialogue is like: “Are you sure that these people are not going to want to pay you for your services? You have balls to pick up the phone and try to call them back and tell them that you are charging $995 for your studio session and Product Credit. Who says you can do that?” And then it goes in and then I procrastinate. It’s like value. I value. It’s valuing myself and letting go of those negative… The committee in my head.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes. Okay, but you did it, because the fact that you even have that your session fee has a print credit like the fact that you even did that. So how did you out run your mean inner person long enough to make that change?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I just wanted to turn them off.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I don’t think about, I try not to think about it. I read I go back to our notes all the time, about being completely transparent. And then also remembering, it’s not about me, this is about my client. And all of a sudden, it takes all this pressure off of me. And also I have no control over them, I can just be my true authentic self and if it’s not meant to be… If we’re not meant to work together, then that’s okay.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Well, and this what I love about what you’re saying is that you’re not saying, “Okay, so I took the class and I made all the changes, and now everything’s perfect. And I forevermore never going to doubt myself again.” Yeah, of course. Of course, you’re going to still doubt yourself. And at every time you make a new change, or you raise a price or whatever, those voices are still there, they’re still going to talk to you. But I feel like the best thing you just said is it’s not about you, it’s about them. And so getting them… When you’re just quickly sending off emails, dashing off emails, and, “Here’s my pricing, and here’s my roles, and here’s my contract and here’s when you need to be here, that’s all about you.”

When you take the time to pick up the phone and talk to them and talk about their kids and talk about their dogs and what they want to do, then you are investing time in somebody, you’re listening to their dreams, and then you’re going to make their dreams come true. Well, it’s worth more than $995.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: That’s right.

Allison Tyler Jones: And so your journey is everybody’s journey. Maybe there’s like one photographer in the world that sprang out of the womb confident. I don’t know, I haven’t met them yet. But everybody else pretty much talks like you do. I know. So, okay, what else? So I’ve that you’ve executed your pricing, you are communicating the value. Do you still feel like that you have a hard time communicating that or do you feel like it’s coming along?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I just get nervous before that initial call. Once I get through the initial call, I am okay. Once they come over and we do the consultation, I have a lot more confidence because they know where I stand, at least in terms of the services that I provide. So it gets easier for sure.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and one thing I found kind of helpful, and I know we’ve talked about this before, but this might help you going forward is when you get into that fear place like, “They’re never going to they’re coming for the consultation. Oh my God, and these are going to be the ones that do whatever,” is think, what’s the worst case scenario here? What is the worst thing they’re going to do? They’re not going to pull out a knife and stab you. Not going to steal one of your kids. They’re not going to burn your house down. So what is the worst thing that’s ever happened to you? I want to know, what is it? What’s the worst that’s happened?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: They’re going to ask for their money back and say that they can’t afford it right now or it’s just not for them and that has happened to me.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, same.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: So when you know what the ultimate downside is there’s… I don’t know, if you’ve listened to Tim Ferriss podcast, I love him. But he talks about this concept of fear setting. So you basically are kind of like go to the worst case scenario in your head of like, “What is the ultimate downside of this? I’m going to lose everything. Everybody’s going to hate me.” Whatever. That you realize, okay, that probably is… When you get rid of all the unrealistic things. They’re not going to stop me, they’re not going to hurt my husband, they’re not going to take one of my kids. So the worst thing is they’re going to take their marbles and go home. And if you do it right. If the consultation is done right, and you have a lovely conversation with them, and you’ve built a relationship, they aren’t going away mad. They aren’t, they simply will not go away mad. Because they just know now you just understand, because you’re transparent. You understand what you’re doing, right?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: And so then they’re like, “Thank you.” What do I hear all the time from people, whether they book or not, thank you so much for taking the time. Yes. Because people recognize that in this day and age, all they’re getting is a bunch of freaking emails from auto respond or fill in the blank template. So you took the time to really understand their project and what it is that they wanted to do, even if they decided that they didn’t want to do it, that is valuable. And that’s marketing for future. So I think you’ll see, and that’s a long game, Jamie. So you’ll see the people that didn’t book, that took their marbles and went home this year, you’re going to see them again. It might not be now but there’ll be later because they now know what you do.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah. Well, I guess also, I need to be promoting more what I do on social media so that they can see all the amazing things they’re missing.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: That’s another avenue.

Allison Tyler Jones: For sure. Yes. But that’s also going back to what you just said about, “I’m trying to execute with my pricing, I’m raising my pricing, I need to communicate the value. And so we talk a lot about that, right? You can’t just say okay, the prices are more. What goes along with that?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Right.

Allison Tyler Jones: Even if it’s things that you’ve already been doing, you still need to call it out and then putting that stuff up on Facebook or Instagram, whatever your social media of choices. So are you doing that? Do you feel like that’s an area where you can work on it a little bit?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I really could. Yeah. I have really just been posting wildlife on my social media. People would not know right now that I’m a portrait photographer by looking at my social media.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I’ve got to work on that.

Allison Tyler Jones: I think that’s common. So that could just be the next frontier for you. And rather than feeling like, “Okay, I’m a failure in this area,” I really want you to sit with the fact. You and I were kind of going back and forth on some DMs earlier last week and you were like, “I’m not doing this, and I’m not doing this, I’m not doing this.” And I hear that inner dialogue. But you doubled your income last year, after 25 years in this business. And you did it by doing really super scary things that some photographers will never do. So I just want you to feel how great that is that you did that. You should be so proud of yourself. I know it’s impossible to be proud of yourself. I’m preaching to the choir, because I never celebrate small wins, or I’m proud of myself. But I’m proud of you, you did it. And doing that has also opened up some other things for you.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes, it has.

Allison Tyler Jones: So tell me about that.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Well, I am actually I got a job working in Alaska, being a naturalist photographer. It’s like a dream come true. I just feel like my whole aura towards my life has changed since taking your class in general. Because I’ve been feeling better about myself, I’ve been making more money, I’ve been helping my family more. So it’s helped my self esteem as a woman and individual. And because of that, I’ve… One other thing that we’ve learned is about balancing my time and not seeing clients on Saturdays and Sundays. So I’ve made more time to do my wildlife photography. And because of that, I’ve been braver. And I just applied for this job out of a whim. I was looking for my children to find them a job, looking at jobs over the summer to do something fun. And it just popped. It was the first thing that popped up. And I was floored, “A naturalist photographer, Alaska on a whale watching trip.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh my God.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I’m going to be doing that every day for months. Don’t be jealous.

Allison Tyler Jones: The thing is I’m not jealous because I don’t… Because I like to watch nature from inside a hotel room. But I am jealous for you in that that is as life-time dream. This is how I see your life Jamie Seymour-Newton, are you ready?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I’m ready ATJ.

Allison Tyler Jones: I honestly think you are going to spend your summers in this way. I think you’re going to spend four months out of the year doing what you love, this other part of what you love, this naturalist photography. And then when you’re home and your kids are in school, or you’re back to your ‘normal life’, you’re also going to be doing what you love, which is bringing animals, families, people together, that’s also another part of your heart. And you are going to have success untold. That doesn’t mean like millions of dollars, but it’s going to be… You’re going to be able to contribute to your family in a way that you never have before, but also to the world. And people need to see how beautiful the world is. They need to save the world. So I just see, bravery has its rewards. This is coming for you because you have made those changes.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes. I am crying. Thank you.

Allison Tyler Jones: You did it. I know. But it’s hard to believe I think sometimes because we… It’s easier to play small or to beat ourselves into a corner and think, because if we don’t hope… If we don’t hope then, we won’t be disappointed.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Right.

Allison Tyler Jones: And if we hope and we think maybe it could be for me. And then we’re disappointed that somehow it’s even worse, but why not? Why not you…

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Take the risk.

Allison Tyler Jones: I know. I just see this for you. I love it. Can we talk about clients for a sec? Do you have any idea who your very best clients are? And how are you deciding who’s best anyway? More importantly, what are you doing to get inside their heads and figure out what they really need? I don’t think you need me to tell you how important quality clients are to the health of your business and your sanity. But actually, I think you do, because so many photographers I talked to are still struggling to attract and more importantly, to hang on to really great clients. The problem isn’t that the great clients aren’t out there. The problem is, is that they don’t understand what it is that you can do for them, and how great that service can be and how it can completely change their life.

It’s time to double down on what makes you unique and clearly toot your horn so everyone, including prospective new, amazing clients know exactly what you do and how you do it. I want to get you up to speed on the exact strategies that I’m using right now in my portrait studio to identify, communicate with and take amazing care of our best clients, all without spending a fortune on ads or marketing. And I’ve put it all together in a masterclass called Cultivating a Quality Clientele. A behind the scenes secret to creating a profitable business built around your unique style and Your best clients without working around the clock or having to market like a crazy person. In this training, I am going to walk you through the major mind shift that all successful portrait photographers must make to clarify their unique style. How to innovate by ignoring the competition and focusing on what you do best. Simplifying to sell more, a clearer way to talk about your work that will educate your clients, instead of quote unquote, selling them. The most simple and effective marketing strategy that we’ve found that costs no money, and will have your clients buzzing about you to their friends. And the single most effective way to increase your profits in your business and why you must know this before you change anything else. I’m offering this masterclass multiple days and times.

So if you’re willing to invest just 60 minutes, to dig deep and look closely at your own business in a new way, I promise to reward your commitment with only my most effective strategies that have made huge differences in my own portrait studio. Strategies that will have your clients loving you more than ever and bragging about you to their friends. Sound good? Go to dotherework.com/masterclass. That’s dotherework.com/masterclass and register for the time that works best for your schedule. I can’t wait to see you there. So I think what you should do, well… You may want to do this, you may not want to do it. Just start another Instagram account, and put all your natural stuff on that. And then when you go do this trip, then do that whole Instagram feed of all your nature stuff, because you obviously love it. And that’s just a fun thing, it’s not a have to thing. There’s no pressure to do that Instagram feed. It’s almost like these young moms do for the Chatbooks, right? Just to keep it fun.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I love that idea.

Allison Tyler Jones: There’s just no pressure like, “Oh my God, I didn’t post wardrobe Wednesday. What the hell. What are we going to do? Business is going to fail now”. You won’t have any pressure, and then the business pressure can just be on the Jamie Newton, the business part of it, and then you can set that up however you want to set it up. But I think, I love having that personal project. That’s something that I’ve always been really bad at allowing myself to do.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: It’s nice to have the passion, the ideas. It’s the implementation that’s the challenging part, especially if you’re so busy. But I think it’s really important as a creative to give yourself that outlet.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, 100%. And when I was looking at, he sent me an email, we were just some things looking at your business. And I think as you look at these numbers, it’s pretty easy to look at where you can go. So for example you said that, do you mind that I share any of this?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: No.

Allison Tyler Jones: All right, so you were talking about how, you just did these home mini garage sessions. And that gave you $10,000, you did this during COVID, charge 99 per child for a 10 minute session and gave them five digitals. And you said huge success, little time, no editing. But that was nine full days of shooting, and nine days of editing and post production. So it was 18 days for $10,000. Okay then if you look at the school, your schools are 30,000, 7 days of shooting, 10 full days including prep and post production. So that’s 10 days for 30. And then if we look at your portrait clients, your average sale right now is at 4500. And how long would you say a portrait client is taking you, just on average? Like once you do the consultation, the session and then retouching and all that?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I don’t know, probably a total of 10…

Allison Tyler Jones: Maybe 10 hours?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah, I mean, that’s including installation, the editing because I…

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. So a good day. Let’s just say a day and a half. Okay, so one and a half days for 4500. So I think it’s pretty obvious the direction, not just the money, because of course we like to follow the money but if we follow the money, I mean look what happened to Breaking Bad. Walt went for the math, and that was not the right answer, right? So money is not everything. But when you were on a zoom call, obviously this is a podcast, so people can’t see you. But when you were talking about, “And I love my clients,” and I love it. Your hand is on your heart, your face is beaming, and then it’s created all these other possibilities for you. I think it’s really important that we look at our numbers and we look at what we’re doing because you’re busy. It’s not that you’re not busy, you’re busy. And you’ve had all these schools that have been taking up a ton of your time and they’re high volume. And maybe not so rewarding creatively…

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Very true.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Maybe, maybe not. I mean…  Yeah. Okay. So I think a lot of little is maybe not your jam. I think maybe more special in relationship, and then making a nap during your on season, so that your off season during the summer can be spent in nature.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I am afraid to let go of my schools because first of all, it has been a big part of my income. Even though my income has not been a lot, it is definitely been a majority. And the other thing is that a lot of my portrait clients have come from my schools. And this year was really challenging because I had one of the clients that came to my house, and she paid the deposit. And we were doing the whole, I mean, it was going to be the most amazing session with her two beautiful little toe heads and her husband on a board. And then she realized that I’m going to be photographing her kids at school for 99 bucks. And I think that’s really why.

Allison Tyler Jones: So she pulled out?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yes, she pulled out of the portrait session, but I would never have met her if it weren’t for the school. So it’s really challenging, because they’re so extremely opposite… But it’s letting go of that. And where do I get my clients?

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so I think you’re not alone. Not everybody has a school contract, but there are plenty of photographers that started out in weddings, or newborns or other genres. And they’re wanting to come into families, and they make all kinds of assumptions and sometimes errors. So do you have a list of portrait clients, of family portrait clients existing? So for 25 years, you have a list?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Probably not 25 years, but I have… First of all, I have the list of all the schools’ parents that have emailed me back. I mean, who have had any correspondence, I made them check off that I can email them and so I have a nice… But it’s just, it’s all over the place. It’s not consolidated in one place, and MailChimp ready to go so…

Allison Tyler Jones: So I think my chance for you for 2022 is I think you need to get your arms around that database. If you’re going to keep the school for the time being, you’ve got it down to two schools or one school?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Two.

Allison Tyler Jones: Two. Okay. And how many were you doing before?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I was doing a lot more mini sessions at my house, a lot of home schools. And I stopped all that, because I just… Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Okay. So I think just looking at these numbers, the many, like that is a no brainer, you need to get rid of that. And like Tim Wilden, I’ve recorded this so many times, I think people are just going to turn the podcast off. But it’s more important for your clients to understand what you do than for them to like what you do. And when you are seeing, you can photograph my kid for a headshot for $99 or however much it is. And then you’re going to charge me five grand to go on my boat, those two things don’t make sense to me. Like you’re the school photographer, or you’re the high end photographer? I’m not saying you can’t do it. I’m just saying… Just think about it. Something to consider. And what happens when we decide that we need to make change? Well, sometimes it can’t happen overnight. You have to have some kind of an income replacement strategy for that $30,000. So those two schools are giving you 30? Okay.

So I would say just put a post it note up in your office when you get home, $30,000 and then break that down. Because what is that? Let me get my calculator. Okay, so $30,000 divided by 4500, which is your average family. That’s 6.6 families. That’s seven families. If we said each family was seven days, right? No, each family was a day and a half. So seven times one and a half. Now let me do math. Okay, so 10 and a half days for… Yeah, so I think that’s just some basic, rather than it’s way scarier to think I can’t let the school go, I’m gonna lose all my income, it’s been the majority of my income. I can’t. Okay, so turn off that inner dialogue and say, “Okay, but if I did. I’m not quitting it right now. I’m keeping it, but $30,000 up on the wall in a big Sharpie. And then how could I replace that? And what would I get out of it if I did?” And then that’s less eggs in one big basket. That’s spreading it out over multiple families.

And then how can I segment my database and figure out, who are your existing clients? Because you need that. That’s the goal. Those are your golden geese. All your existing clients. How am I marketing to them?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: But even if they’re past school families?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: It doesn’t matter. Okay.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I think you’re going to have to segment the database by past school families that have never turned into family clients. These are school clients that you happen to have have their email address, right? So that’s a different way of announcing, “Blah blah blah. I’ve been photographing the school for years and love these kids and whatever. And so I branched into blah blah blah.” So that’s a whole different thing. Then people that have come from the school, who are portrait clients, and then marketing to them. So it’s kind of like you’ve got to segment it a little bit, and look at how you’re talking to them.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Right. Well, that’s definitely something I need to write a plan for to do, because I really would love to in the fall…

Allison Tyler Jones: Be done.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah. Work on my portrait business.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Because what you’re doing is, you’re doing this $30,000 thing at the time that’s busiest for portrait photographers.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Very true.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s when you’re making bank, that fourth quarter is when it’s all happening for portrait clients. So I think the way will become clear on this. But when I decided to stop doing weddings, my weddings were about 65,000 a year. So that wasn’t like a huge wedding business. But it wasn’t also nothing. That could pay the rent in my studio, that could pay for an employee. It was still a lot of money to me. So I had to figure out how am I going to replace that. But rather than hold that amount, that $64,000, as this monolith, impenetrable, oh my God I can never… If you just break that down. So at that point, I think my session averages were probably like more about 5000. So 64,000 divided by five. So that’s what it was. I needed 12 to 13 new portrait clients that year, or more seniors, if they were less, or whatever. Just kind of break it down that way, then it doesn’t feel quite so scary. That’s not…

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Did you do it?

Allison Tyler Jones: I did. And in fact, I hated weddings so that I never wanted to do them. I had a client that early on just begged me and then the images turned out so great. You know what happens? Right, then it just happens. And of course, they’re willing to pay you. So of course, you’re going to do it. And then I finally just realized… I was standing at a reception in Arizona, it was December 21, it was raining. And the groom was groomzilla. Horrible. And I just stood there and I’m like, “I’m never doing this again”. I’m never shooting another wedding again. I don’t care if I go broke. I’m never doing this because I hate it so bad. I only wanted to photograph the old people and the kids. That was the fun thing to me. Bride and groom are the least interesting people. And I’m like, I shouldn’t be doing this. This is not fair to them. Plus, I hated that guy.

So he broke me and I was done. But I still wanted to replace that income, I didn’t want to take a 65,000 a year hit. Because at that time that was probably about, I don’t know, 20-30% of my income. So I just made a plan to. And because I opened up that space for that, I was able to fill it. But if I had kept trying to do that, and then try to add him first, that doesn’t work. Like I’m going to hold on to the weddings, and then add more clients… That doesn’t work. Because…

Jaime Seymour-Newton: So basically what you’re saying is, it’s not really about the job. It’s a spiritual letting go of it and making room for something new. Or making room for really important…

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, and for me I just was like, no matter what I’m going to do it. Because I would come into this, this was December that I decided this. Not everybody can do that. If your mortgage is not going to get paid if you get rid of that school, that’s not a smart thing to do. So I had enough business that I didn’t want to take the hit, but it wouldn’t have ended me if I did. So that’s a big difference. But sometimes it just, like you say, it’s a spiritual opening of well, what if I could? You’ve already done this Jaime. After 25 years you said, I’m changing my prices, I’m charging a higher session fee. And this is how I’m going to do and I’m not going to just send off emails.

Look at how many changes that was. That’s a lot of change. And then it was these immediate results. But if you hadn’t said, “No, I’m doing this” then you would still be like so many that we see in any industry. Well, that won’t work for me. That won’t work in Miami. That won’t work in Florida. That won’t work in this small town, whatever. Because they never tried it.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: You know what, though? I think the thing that was so amazing with your program is that obviously it was working for you and what [crosstalk 00:39:08] was not working. So it was really nice for me because I am wonderful at following directions. You give me a job, I am good. So I followed your directions. I just was like, “Oh, okay, do this.” It was great. That’s why I loved your class so much, because you gave so many details. It was like baby steps on how to get to where we are. And that’s exactly what I need. Because like I said, I’m good at following directions. And so you need to have another class for me for the next level of letting go and opening up for new things.

Allison Tyler Jones: I know. It’s true. But I think you’re there, I think you’ve done it, and I think… Sometimes it’s hard to see it because we only ever live like a day or like that moment at a time and so we tend to not look back and go, “Oh wow. I really have come far.” I remember thinking that a few years ago like, “I don’t really do marketing in my business.” And then I sat down and thought, okay let’s just see if I can list all the things that I’ve done for marketing, and I felt like three pages. I’m like, “Oh I guess I do do marketing”. But I didn’t just take the time to sit and think about it. So I think if you sat down and just thought, looking at what’s already happened in the last year for you, looking at what this amazing opportunity this summer. And then just saying, if something happened to me, and I couldn’t shoot that school, what would I do? How would I replace that income? That might be kind of a negative way to think about it but…

Jaime Seymour-Newton: I can go deep on that one. I don’t know if I want to do that.

Allison Tyler Jones: I know. Yeah. But like, how could I… Rather than, “I have to keep it? Oh, my God, it’s so much money.” Could you change your thinking to “You know what, $30,000 isn’t that much money”. Of course it’s a lot of money. But if you just, for a minute just said “Okay, $30,000 is not that much money. How could I make that money?”

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Not do or die. I will try. Yeah, I might surprise you this year. In the fall, we’ll see.

Allison Tyler Jones: I have no doubt. And I think you could just start putting feelers out and thinking, “Okay, what do I need to make between now and the time I leave for Alaska, to make me feel like I could totally let the school go?” That’s another good question. So I like questions like that for myself, because it makes me just think about it in a different way. And it gets me out of my fear. It distracts me from my panic when I’m making changes.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah, I understand that. It’s a good thing to think about.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. So lastly, what advice do you have for any other photographers who might be struggling with some of the things that you have struggled with and overcome? Or maybe somebody that’s maybe been in 10 or 15 years or whatever. What advice do you have? What would you like to share?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Well, I’d like to share… I mean I mentioned it before, but to ask for help. Reach out. Take classes from people who know what they’re doing, who have a successful record, like you and there’s so many other amazing classes and teachers, mentors. I’ve been doing a lot of that, it’s been really helpful. Turn off the committee in your head once you go to those negative places. I really have to work on that one. Be transparent with your clients. Like I said, I was so afraid of them. And it’s been so wonderful to overcome that fear and really get to know my clients and to see because they bring so much to the table too. I’ve learned so much from them, about relationships, about people. How to deal with people, about my business, what works and what doesn’t work. The other thing is working on personal growth, because I feel like when you take time for yourself, you become a better… I think I just feel like I’ve found out so much more about myself this year. I’ve taken time for myself, and now…

Yeah, do a consultation. People, do a consultation. I have never done consultations until this past year, and it is so rewarding. Not only to have a client know exactly what they’re getting into and be completely open, but for me, because then I feel comfortable. I knew what I’m shooting, I wasn’t wasting my time in the studio. Everything was on the table. We knew, she knew, my clients know what they’re getting, and I know what they need. So much time and it was just such a… I’ve heard it for years, I’m like please, and it has been a game changer.

Allison Tyler Jones: It makes me so happy.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Yeah. The other one is find products that you love. When you love your products, you will shine and get excited when you talk about them. I was just selling same thing ever, the Joe Schmo down the block, because I was doing what everyone else was doing. And recently I’ve been kind of looking at new things and ordering little samples like “Oh my God, this is amazing.” So it’s been bringing me a lot of excitement. I’ve gotten a couple of samples, we’ll see. And the last thing is to remember your why. Why are we working so hard? What are we doing this for? Are we doing this so that the photographer down the block can one up me or I could one up them? Or am I doing to help my family because it makes me feel good? I’m giving my clients a gift.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, what is your why?

Jaime Seymour-Newton: My why is giving people a gift of authenticity of a moment in time, especially with their animals. Especially with rescue animals or just the relationship, documenting that. And that’s something I really want to focus more on in terms of my business which I’m not right now. It’s just relationships. And for my family and as a woman, as an entrepreneur, I want to be a successful businesswoman who can do good things for other people but yet help my family and feel good about myself.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Such good goals. The words that were coming to my mind when you were just speaking that last little bit is that its connection to each other and to nature. Connection to each other and to the world that we live in, and I think that is your… That’s core, and that can be core to your brand too. And when you post on social media, before you go to post something you think, how is this relating to my why? Which is connection to each other and connection to the natural world. That’s core, you can’t get away from that. And the thing is, Jamie, you see it in your imagery as well. And even in your person. You are a very organic, natural… I can see that in you. So that is real and very authentic. And as you say those words, it rings true. And so we can’t ever get away, we can only ever be who we are.

So we don’t want to be anybody else. We want to be the best version of ourselves and create the best version of our art for our very best clients. And you are doing that. And I’m just thrilled for you. I’m so excited for this new adventure. And I can’t wait to see that Instagram feed. I’m going to follow.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Okay, I look forward to that. And Allison, thank you so much for doing this class and just rocking my life. It’s really been an amazing year. So I’m grateful to you.

Allison Tyler Jones: Thank you. Well, I appreciate you. And I appreciate you being a star student and just executing all along the way. It’s awesome. And we have more to do so…

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Let’s get to work.

Allison Tyler Jones: Alright, thank you so much Jamie.

Jaime Seymour-Newton: Thank you Allison.

Allison Tyler Jones: Have a great day.  Do you know someone who would really benefit from this episode of The Rework? Maybe a fellow photographer who’s in the trenches with you and always looking to level up their business. Or perhaps you have a friend who is struggling to make their business work. I would be so grateful if you would share this episode with them. All you have to do is head to the platform where you’re listening, click the share icon and text it or email it to the person that you think could need it most. Thank you so much for doing that. And while you’re there, if you have a chance and can give us a review, it would mean the world. We are a micro tiny podcast and we’re trying to get the word out to as many portrait photographers as possible to help them build better businesses and better lives for their family. And if you would help us to do that, it would mean the world. Thank you so much, and we’ll see you next time on The Rework.

Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com and on Instagram at do.the.rework

 

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