Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little ReWork. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini-workshops and behind-the-scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She’ll challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the ReWork.
Allison Tyler Jones: I am very excited today to introduce our ReWork listeners to somebody that you probably already know. Jen Hillenga from a Brooklyn, New York, but not originally.
Jen Hillenga: No.
Allison Tyler Jones: Not originally. Midwest girl. Yes. Okay. So, Jen, I would love for you to take our listeners through on a little journey because what you’ve experienced over the last five to seven years is familiar to many of our listeners who’ve had to move, completely change their business, change, and even if they haven’t moved, change their business, change their genre, whatever. So, give us a little Reader’s Digest version of Jen and your history and get us up to date on where you’re at.
Jen Hillenga: Yeah. Reinvention I think is the best word, and it’s been longer than five to seven years. Can you believe I have been in New York for 11 years at this point?
Allison Tyler Jones: Really?
Jen Hillenga: Which is crazy. Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s amazing.
Jen Hillenga: So, many moons ago I started off as a camera room assistant for a photographer right after I had graduated from college, actually during college as a summer job. And then after college I went to go work as a camera room assistant fluffing wedding dresses and high school seniors. And I worked for three different studios before I left to do my own 8 million years ago. And so I did a portrait studio in Minneapolis forever and ever. And then had the template education company, jensfabulousstuff.com and sold that to a business here in New York. And they moved me and basically bought me with my company and I was creative director of Adorama’s lab for six and a half years.
Jen Hillenga: And then when COVID hit, I think it taught us all who we wanted to be and what was important and what we wanted to be doing. And I had decided that corporate life was no longer for me and I needed to go back to being creative instead of directing creative. But the older I get, the more I like dogs and the less I like people. So, I decided that I was going to go back to photography, but I was only going to photograph dogs and pets because if I have to people, I only want a people with dog people. So, that was 2021.
Allison Tyler Jones: For those of you who don’t know Jen, which I can’t imagine that there’s many, but for those that don’t, you had a thriving portrait studio and multiple employees and you were kicking some serious tail. Yeah?
Jen Hillenga: I was and I hated all of it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so interesting. But there was something that you did like because you went corporate, right? Well, you went full line portrait studio, then you went online business, then sold that, then go to corporate America and then came back to the studio. So, what was the through line there or was there one?
Jen Hillenga: Yeah, I think my background was in fine art and graphic design, and then I fell into photography in the middle of all that. And at the time when I was a baby photographer, it made sense because I thought, oh, photography is an art that I can do and actually make money because I decided I hated graphic design, which I like designing, but I didn’t like agency life or I did my internship in Chicago in design my senior year of college, and I was like, this is not for me. So, yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: The business side of graphic design, you didn’t like that.
Jen Hillenga: Right. It was the agencyness of it. It was like, I can’t use my creative talents to sell this product on somebody else’s … you’re not really even, you’re creative, but it’s somebody who’s giving you direction of we’re trying to sell this thing and it’s product based. It’s not art. It’s an art, but it wasn’t an art for me.
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it.
Jen Hillenga: And so I was like, I can’t do graphic design. I’m going to do photography, because I had done this assistant job between my junior and senior year of college. I’m like, I’m going to go into photography. I think I can do that. I’m going to start working for the people and figure it out, and then I’m going to eventually open my own business. And so the third studio that I worked at, I had kind of been able to have all of the knowledge, like the on the job knowledge of working for studios to figure out who I wanted to be when I wanted to start my own. And I knew that the thing that made me a great business person is knowing that I wasn’t a great business person. I was the creative. So, at that point I had a friend, but we weren’t that good of friends.
Jen Hillenga: She was somebody who had come into the studio that I was working at before I left, and she had been kind of temping and filling in for a salesperson and we created a friendship and then when I left, she’s like, “Oh, I have some connections that I could hook you up with now that you’re on your own.” And it kind of just snowballed into then Cate becoming my business partner, and it worked really well. She was type A, I was type B. If I were any more relaxed, I’d be dead. She was very organized, and OCD. And so the reason that business partner worked, because I usually wouldn’t recommend business partnerships, because it can get really messy, but we really had separate roles and kept it that way and didn’t really-
Allison Tyler Jones: Neither of you wanted to do what the other one was doing?
Jen Hillenga: No, she couldn’t do the creative. She was the one dealing with employees and taxes and bookkeeping and sales, and I got to do all the design, all the creative and whatever. And for a while it worked really well. We left on the best of terms. We both had just kind of burned out, because we did it for almost 11 years and we had at one point 10 employees, a 6,000 square foot studio, and I had fallen into this weird Gary V-ness of it, all of that, if it’s going to be successful, it’s got to be bigger. You got to scale, you got to do all the stuff-
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Jen Hillenga: And I hated it. I was like, we have this big studio and all these employees, but I’m not making more money than I was when it was just her and I and one employee because I’m paying for everybody else. I’m paying for all of these people and this big space. And I had spent my late twenties and most of my thirties making a living, but I hadn’t made a life and I was living and breathing and eating this thing that was just feeding everyone else and not feeding me anymore creatively and honestly, even monetarily, we were making, I think the last year we did 1.2 mil and I didn’t make any more money than when we were making 300,000 because of all of the stuff.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Well, and I think that’s common. I think you see that this idea of scale, scale, scale, make it bigger, make it bigger, and then I see so many people, I mean, think of all the people that we know who have been on that trajectory, like Kim Wiley, Vicki Taufer, like there’s so many that have gone that bigger and then have just pulled it right back, which I think is really encouraging for those listening that are solopreneurs that are thinking they have to scale. And you realize actually you can do a lot with just one or two employees or just yourself.
Jen Hillenga: And I’ve learned a lot about in this new dog photography business about all of that. I said, if I ever did it again, I was going to just not be anybody but me, which is mostly what it is. I have a little bit of help here and there, but it’s mostly just me because how much do you need? And I started this with writing the mission statement and figuring out the why and who I wanted to be and why I wanted to do this. And coming back to the core of being the photographer that provided a service to people to capture images of what was important.
Jen Hillenga: And what had shifted to me was now I was like, oh, my dogs are the most important thing in my life, and I know that there’s a niche for that. I’ve reached the point in my life, the age in my life where I’m not going to do anything I don’t want to do anymore. And if it doesn’t make me happy, I’m not going to do it. So, what makes me happy and who do I want to be? My dogs. It’s my chosen family. I never got married, never had kids, and I’m totally fine with that. I feel like I made the best decision. Sorry, but-
Allison Tyler Jones: No, you made the best decision for you. I think it’s awesome.
Jen Hillenga: For me, right. For my life, that was the thing, but it was like-
Allison Tyler Jones: You’re Oprah basically.
Jen Hillenga: Yeah, I’d like to think so, but I’m like, okay, who do I want to be and how? And my why was now going to be the guiding factor for the how.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so what was the why? What was the mission statement?
Jen Hillenga: So, I wrote down the mission statement first, and I should be able to roll that off the top of my tongue, but I don’t remember. It’s on my website. But basically I looked at my dogs and I had done a fun project in 2020 in early lockdown with my dogs where I did the whole recreating paintings with pet where I leaned back into my fine art history background. And I did my whole, picked my favorite paintings and recreated it with my dogs, and I’m like, oh, this is just chill and creative and fun, and what if I could move forward and just photograph dogs and just hang out with dogs all the time and not have crazy people and deadlines and all of this nuts?
Jen Hillenga: And so I sat down and I wrote a mission statement and basically said, how much better would our lives be if we kind of lived our lives the way dogs do? So, lived our lives in accordance with the ways of the dog, and that was the name of is, The Ways of the Dog, that’s the new pet photography business. And it’s like start no drama, but take no shit, love your pack unconditionally and live in the moment. And it’s like if I make another business, I want it to be about that. I’m not here to create any drama, but I’m going to have boundaries.
Jen Hillenga: I’m here to love the people and the things that are around me that I’ve chosen to put in my life and I’m not going to worry about the future. I’m just going to live in the now. So, I want the entire business to be built off that concept. So, that’s where the name came from and that’s where the new direction of what I was going to do because life in the fullness of COVID and everything that was happening, and it was like why are we playing these games and grinding and doing all this stuff when what does it mean when everything can stop? And if I’m going to move forward, I’m going to move forward on my terms.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and the thing I love about that, I remember when you were in that space and you were working all of that stuff out, is that once you get that why, even if it’s a couple of sentences, just what you just said, how easily a brand comes out of that. When you hit that pay dirt of truth like, oh no, this is me.
Jen Hillenga: Okay, great.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, for me it was something like if I could just only shoot in studio, my life would be so happy. When I first started, I was like, oh, I don’t really want to do families. And then realizing, oh, actually no, I really do. I think it’s once you hit those true things … So, for listeners, if you have something in your mind that’s been circling for a long time and we all have them, we all have those little weird secret Pinterest boards or the weird folder with the stuff at a Vanity Fair magazine, stuff that we’ve wanted to do forever that’s been just niggling in the back of our mind, get it out.
Jen Hillenga: Well, and not only that, but nothing is weird if you love it, there are people out there that love it and want it. Because I’m like, I’m a dog photographer, I’ve done all these random things and I landed on dog photography, and that’s the thing that is the thing. Talking about a friend with a friend yesterday because I have a client who just booked me to fly out to California, and this year I’ve done dog sessions in Amsterdam and Milan, and I’m going to California, and I’m like, who knew dogs was going to be the thing? So, I don’t think that there’s anything, if you’re dreaming it and it’s something that speaks to you, it speaks to somebody else. It’s just about finding those people.
Jen Hillenga: But the only time I’ve ever been in a rut or upset or about the path of my life or whatever is when I was sitting in indecision, and it’s like the minute you figure out your why and you sit down to write it out of who do I want to be and what direction do I want to go, it’s like the universe is like, oh, thank goodness we were waiting for you. The universe is like all you needed to do was tell us which way you wanted to go, which direction you were headed, and we were going to build the road for you. We were going to give you everything you needed-
Allison Tyler Jones: It’s so true
Jen Hillenga: … for this journey. The only time I’ve never been moving forward in that way is when I just didn’t know. And I get it, it’s hard to make those decisions, but this one just, it’s settled and it was just like, oh, duh. Of course that’s the direction. And it just felt like, it’s kind of like when I moved to New York, everybody was like, oh, that must be so hard and whatever. And I was like, honestly, in the moving truck, coming over the bridge to Brooklyn is the first time I’ve ever felt at home in my life. And so it’s like sometimes when you just move in that direction, you’re like, oh, that makes sense. I don’t know why it took me this long to get here.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Sometimes you decide and it’s like immediately like, no, you know what I mean? So, sometimes that’s the other way, but then you can immediately go, pump the brakes, let’s turn it around. But that’s still information, that’s still data about your decision, but what you will never get there or you’ll never get that feeling of home or your next step if you’re … I mean, I know people that live their entire life in indecision. That is a –
Jen Hillenga: And never try because they’re afraid.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, for sure.
Jen Hillenga: I started this when I was 46, and it’s never too late to pivot and reinvent. Who cares? The secret to life is that there is no secret to life and there are no actual rules, there’s no timeline. There’s no, you should do this by that age. You failed if you haven’t reached this benchmark. It’s all a big lie. There are no rules, there’s no timeline. That’s the secret to life is that there is no secret. Just do you. Nobody cares what you’re doing. Nobody’s going to judge you. And if they judge you, then they shouldn’t be in your life anyway.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Jen Hillenga: This is just going to be a therapy session, is what this is.
Allison Tyler Jones: I just love it. Well, it makes me think of, I don’t know if you were in this room when this happened, but years ago it had to be maybe 2006, ’07, something like that. I was at WPPI, and Joe Buissink was speaking and he was sick. He had stomach flu or something. Were you there?
Jen Hillenga: I think so.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Anyway, so he was getting up to talk and I didn’t know who he was. I’d never heard of him, and I had just barely started my business, and he was talking about how he picked up a camera for the first time at 50, and then he’s like, yeah, and he did this whole thing. He’s like, “Yeah. So, I did this work for the singer, and we kind of did these graphy albums for their backup singers, and it was really fun. We had a good time.” So, I’m sitting here thinking, well, okay, this singer, I can’t be anybody good because it’s like he would’ve immediately trotted out, oh, it was Madonna or whatever.
Allison Tyler Jones: He was just like this thing or whatever. And he’s like, here’s some pictures. And so he queues up the music for the slideshow and it’s like Christina Aguilera’s entire tour. And so I took two things away from that. One, it’s never too late to start, and two, underplay your hand. To have that humility is so attractive. And then also Denis Reggie had to finish the talk for him, because he was throwing up. But anyway, it was a seminal moment in my photography career of it’s never too late and do you, right?
Jen Hillenga: Yeah, and I think another thing I’ve learned that New York has taught me is that nobody’s better than you. Before I moved here, living in the Midwest, you kind of look at those people or those celebrities or those heads of businesses that you think have this unachievable thing. You have them on a pedestal and you think that, oh, these people are special and they do all of these amazing things in the world and blah, blah, blah. And then I moved to New York and I’m like, oh yeah, that guy lives two doors down and doesn’t put his recycling out.
Jen Hillenga: They’re just people. You come in contact, and it’s funny because now living in New York, you’re rubbing shoulders with the movers and shakers of the world and society and you realize that they’re just human and that so are you, and that anything that is achievable that they’re no better than you and you can do it too. Again, just the concept of there are no rules and there’s no hierarchy and there’s none of that. You can accomplish anything. That is the gift that New York gives you after it tries to kill you.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes.
Jen Hillenga: It’ll take you down to the pits and try to break everything about you. And then once you’ve made it through that hole, then it’s like, oh no, by the way, you’re an amazing creation that’s able to do anything in the world. Here, let me open that path for you. You’re welcome.
Allison Tyler Jones: Love it. I love that. Okay, so let’s take you back to when you decided, okay, I’m going to quit corporate. I’m going to go out on my own again, but alone this time without a partner. What was the first, well, obviously you just told us what the first thing was is that you made a mission statement, the why of what you want to do it basically stripping it down to I’m not doing it unless it’s going to be done this way. And I think that’s amazing, but here you are, you’re basically newer person in a new city, for sure a new market. You hadn’t had a business there before you’d been working for a corporation. So, what was the first thing you did? How did you get started?
Jen Hillenga: Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, I did have the luxury of building several businesses before that, but it was like, okay, what are the first things you need? How do you get going? How do you build a brand? How do you do it quickly? I did have the luxury of knowing that my exit from corporate was going to be on about a six-month timeline. So, knowing that I did … And I feel like a lot of other people that may be listening or maybe are part-time photographers that still have a day job, that is something that you can relate to and know that, okay, well let’s figure out the exit strategy and if you do want to do this on your own, what does that look like? What do you need to make? How do you need to do that? Working backwards of, I live in New York and I need to make X amount to live here comfortably, and what does that translate into how much I need to make per dog client and what do I need to do to get there?
Jen Hillenga: And let’s work backwards of what I need my salary to be and then move forward. But the first thing you need to do is you need people in front of your camera, you need clients, you need whatever. So, I did several different things. I had enough client images with dogs from my past life that I could pull a few of that. I had done a fundraising event for the rescue that I rescued my dogs from. They had done a thing where people could donate to the rescue, and they had worked with a bunch of photographers, so I’d done three or four sessions for them for that. And then I had a friend who was out in Jersey. Cate Scaglione is a wonderful boudoir photographer, and we were good friends and she said, “Hey, I don’t do anything but boudoir, but I have the studio. Why don’t I do a call-out, a model call for my clients to, you can use my studio for the day and I’ll do a model call for my clients and they can come into the studio and you can photograph their dogs in studio just to build a portfolio?”
Jen Hillenga: I’m like, “Great.” And we will do a free session and a couple of digital images for coming in, and then if they want to buy more, great. But it’s really just portfolio building. And that concept, those first few weeks was eye-opening to me and made me understand that every time I put somebody in front of my camera, there are multiple metrics for success for that session, and that’s not always the sale when I’m starting out.
Allison Tyler Jones: So, say more, say more.
Jen Hillenga: You’ll hear a lot of photographers who’ve been in it for a million years or whatever, or a lot of stuff on Twitter and threads and social media that be like, I don’t work for free. I don’t work for free. Well, that’s great if you have a reputation established, but when you are just getting going and you just need to photograph, if you look at every session with this session can provide multiple things, and there are multiple metrics for success. So, maybe it’s a sale and this person’s paid me several thousand dollars, or maybe I need content to build a website or an Instagram account, or maybe I need networking and I just need this person to talk about me. Not every single session when you’re just building a new brand is all about the end result sale. You’d like it to be, you’d like everybody to buy thousands of dollars worth of images, but when you don’t have anything and you’re just building there other things that you need.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and I think even the people that say that that say, “Well, I don’t work for free.” It’s like, okay, but we all know that you have different levels of investment with even your existing clients, and I don’t know about you, but when you were in the portrait world, it seems like the most beautiful people that had the most gorgeous clothes spent the least. So, you’re like, okay, well that’s portfolio.
Jen Hillenga: And some of the people that come in that can afford three images are the ones who promote you and like every single Instagram post and they’re helping your algorithm and they’re reposting everything and maybe they don’t have pre-qualified friends and family, but somebody they know can afford you well, and sometimes they’re the ones just raising your follower account and raising your interaction in your socials and it’s like, okay, well they can only spend $200, but what is the worth behind that engagement? So, there’s just multiple metrics for success.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.
Jen Hillenga: So, first two years, I don’t think I took a session fee and everybody got a free session and a free 8 by 10 almost for two years, and I would hand those out like candy and if you wanted to hand those out, great. So, anybody who came, you could also do a giveaway on social media that the prize was a free session and a free 8 by 10. And the 8 by 10 we’ll talk about I’m sure all this other stuff, but it also included the digital for that one image. And I ran the risk of doing that, that people were only going to take that one freebie, but I’d say my percentage is maybe like 5% take that one image.
Allison Tyler Jones: Only took what was offered.
Jen Hillenga: Right. Only took the free 8 by 10 and the one image and didn’t do anything like that. Because I’m almost, am I 30 years into doing this? I don’t even know, but I’m old. But I also know that if I put you or your dog or your family in front of my camera, you are 99.9% of the time you’re not going to walk away with one image.
Allison Tyler Jones: No, because you’re great at what you do.
Jen Hillenga: I have faith in my ability to know that I’m going to create stuff that you’re going to love. And so the risk reward of me saying, you know what? I’m willing to give up my time for the network. I’m willing to networking. I’m willing to give up my time for the algorithm, for the content, for the whatever, knowing that most often it’s going to result in a sale and a $200 sale is $200 I didn’t have yesterday and a $5,000 sales 5,000 I didn’t have yesterday. And from my mindset, I’ve really switched my relationship with money.
Jen Hillenga: And now I really just believe I’m grateful for all of it and I really believe it all equals out. And I have clients who spend $400 and clients who spend $10,000 and everything in between, and I really, honestly, I can really say I do not care, which is a really interesting, refreshing place to be in life because I’m looking at everything as what can I use this for beyond the sale and knowing that it’s going to equal out and that the universe provides and that it’ll all be good. But it taken a lot to get beyond that idea of living with a scarcity mindset, to living with an abundance mindset and knowing that these sessions will be successful somehow every one of them. So, we did that day where she offered up her studio and within deciding and making the mission statement was like the first week of February, and then I launched the business by February 20th and had 15 sessions on the books and two scrolls worth of Instagram content within three weeks.
Allison Tyler Jones: Awesome.
Jen Hillenga: The website was built and this was all on my free time from my-
Allison Tyler Jones: Your job.
Jen Hillenga: … corporate gig. So, it’s like, all right, let’s go. And I did it on evenings and weekends for the six months and then went full-time July of that year and never looked back. And honestly, by the time I left, I was making more money and did six figures within first year and just, let’s go. Let’s hustle.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, I have questions.
Jen Hillenga: Tell me.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so I love that decoupling from the money thing, and I am a big subscriber to the abundance mindset. Somewhere in your mind though, there’s an expectation that this is going to pay. You’re not just doing this for your health. You could just work for free forever if you were a trust fund baby, and you know what I mean? You could. And there are people that do.
Jen Hillenga: Absolutely. This wasn’t my first rodeo. I had done a successful photography business before and I am a big proponent of printing, but also not scared of digitals.
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it.
Jen Hillenga: And there’s a combination mindset in what I offer to my clients and know that yes, I was working for free in terms of the session time, but really only giving that one image for free and knowing with confidence that this was going to result in some sort of sale. And I think my first year of business, my average was about $800 per client knowing what I needed to break even and live in New York and knowing that I needed to photograph at least 10 dogs a month to make sure that I wasn’t going broke and I could afford my rent and everything that New York is. So, it’s like, okay, great. How do I get 10 people in the door knowing that this is about my average, which I had the comfortability of knowing, okay, I have the salary for six months.
Jen Hillenga: Where’s the average landing with what I’m doing on these sessions? And then how many do I need to hustle and get in the door to make sure that this is my break even and then this is happy and how do I find those people and get the word out? I really, really started to work with rescues and dug into those communities deeply. I was already involved in dog world because I had two rescue dogs. So, there is a real deep community in New York City, in New York City rescue dog world. It’s like a thing. It’s like a deep-seated family community thing. So, I started to reach out to different rescues, my dog’s rescue, and then a couple of others and offer my services to help them fundraise to photograph dogs. That was another content thing. I started to photograph adoptable dogs, just that photos of dogs. So, the rescues were so open to that because a good photo gets that dog adopted.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes, yes.
Jen Hillenga: And so it was really a win-win. And then I started to do photo booth events at their fundraising events. So, one rescue in particular, Korean K9, they rescue dogs from the Korean meat trade. It’s a whole thing. It’s terrible. Which they have rallied and they have been part of getting that banned. So, in the upcoming years, the Korean government is going to get all that banned and find new things for those farmers and whatever. So, they do a lot of really great work, but they were having a summer party and they asked if I wanted to do a photo booth. So, the people coming to the party paid a small amount, like it’s $25 for me to photograph them.
Jen Hillenga: I just put everybody up in a big gallery, go find your own images, download them, I don’t care. But it was again, for content and for networking and that group, because of the passion of this mission of this rescue, that group is very passionate about their dogs. They’re very dedicated to their dogs. They have to rehab and train and feed well, and all of those things like they are the ideal community and the ideal dog parent who cares deeply about that mission for these dogs. So, it was really my in to that community, not only giving back to the rescue, but also these people could experience me working with their dog very quickly in a photo booth scenario. So, they knew, especially with these particular dogs who are basically raised livestock and don’t have a lot of human interaction, you’re able to get a good photo of that shut down dog.
Jen Hillenga: People are like, “Oh, we need to do this for real.” Then everybody who adopted a dog from these rescues I was working for, every new adopted dog got a free session and a free 8 by 10 card. Everybody at that event got a free session, an 8 by 10 card, and so I was booked up right away just being ingrained in these communities. And if all things are created equal, people want to do business with people who give back to the same things that they’re passionate about.
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Jen Hillenga: So, it really was a win-win. I’m photographing all these dogs for the rescue, helping to get them adopted. People are seeing that on the rescue social media, and these rescues have hundreds of thousands of social media followers and now all of a sudden they’re tagging me to their whole community. I’m at every event. It just makes sense and everybody’s happy.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I love that. Well, so there’s a couple of things there that I just want to pull out that I think are really genius. One is that your expertise, you have this level of expertise. Yeah, you’re a great photographer. You know how to light, you can get a good picture. Amazing. There’s a gajillion of us out there, right?
Jen Hillenga: Are you saying I’m not special?
Allison Tyler Jones: I’m saying that you’re not special and that you are special. I’m saying both things, but what you did is you took your expertise in a completely unrelated area that has nothing to do with photography, mom of a rescue. You went to that community. And so it’s almost like being mom of a special needs kid, which is what I resonate with. Somebody can get a decent picture of my kids. It’s hard. They’ve got sensory issues, they’re a little cuckoo. So, it’s kind of like the same thing with the dog who might bite or might be super, super shut down and scared or you’re never going to get those ears up or whatever, and you know how to do all of those things. So, it’s a level of expertise and caring and passion that exceeds the photography and that really resonates with that group.
Jen Hillenga: One of my own dogs is also reactive, and so it is understanding … And one of our trainers really put it beautifully. They said, “Your dog’s not giving you a hard time. Your dog is having a hard time.” And that made me more empathetic just in general to my own dog, but all dogs and understand, okay, what do I need to understand about the body language and about their nervous system and all of these things to get them to a good place? But that harkens back to who I was as a portrait photographer also because I always said that being a good photographer is being half artist, half psychologist.
Allison Tyler Jones: Totally.
Jen Hillenga: Understanding when somebody, and it gets amplified with children and amplified by X amount with any special needs, but you have three minutes when you meet somebody when they come in the studio to figure out who they are, how they want to be seen, which is not necessarily who they are and who do you need to be to get them there. And when it was with children, it was like, okay, is this like an ADHD kid that’s bouncing all the walls who constantly has adults raising their voice to get them to pay attention?
Jen Hillenga: Well, if I do the opposite of that and I’m very quiet and now this child has to quiet down to listen to me and I have something exciting and all of these things, so it’s basically psychology, but then turning it into dogs, it’s like, okay, dogs are even simpler than humans because there’s breed specific things. There’s dog body language. They are very honest creatures, and they will tell you exactly who they are, and they don’t have that level of artifice that humans put on that misguide them into who they want to be seen. It takes that out. The dog just is.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. They don’t have a social overlay.
Jen Hillenga: Right. So, when you understand the different triggers and the different things that they love and the different ways that they will show you who they are, it’s much easier to understand it and figure it out and be who you need to be to get them in the right mindset, so to speak. But I think it’s interesting because people who have just adopted a dog don’t really have that history or understanding. They know their dog, but they don’t know all of it. So, it’s interesting, but I also think that a big part of that knowledge and coming into that and bringing that expertise is understanding that all of this falls in line, it’s alignment. It all falls back into that mission statement of who do I want to be?
Jen Hillenga: What service do I want to provide? What is the problem that we’re trying to solve? And that is I want to celebrate, create an image that celebrates everyone’s life with their dog, who they are now. And so many people, whether it’s portraits or this or whatever, they think that they can’t do a session until there’s a perfect storm of everything aligning and whatever. So, women especially will be like, “Oh, I need to color my hair and lose 10 pounds before I can do this.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, totally.
Jen Hillenga: I’m like, “No, you don’t need to.” If all that happens eventually down the road, great, let’s redo it, but let’s do it now. So, there might be for these rescue families, it’s like my dog’s not trained and maybe they’re out of pocket. They’re not going to sit and stay or whatever. I’m like, they’re trained enough. They don’t have to be good off leash. They don’t have to be any bit.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, hold on, pause for just one second. You just cut out. So, for their rescue families-
Jen Hillenga: Got it. So, for these rescue families, they might come and say, “My dog’s not well-trained. My dog’s not good off leash. My dog is still needs to decompress from rescue and whatever.” It’s like, it’s okay when those things happen down the line and your dog is well-trained or whatever, we’ll do it again, but let’s photograph your dog now. Because the other thing with dogs is we have a very finite timeline of how long their lifespan is, do it now. We don’t have enough time. So, it’s keeping everything in alignment of who I want to be and what I want to provide and that when I’m doing all this for rescue, it’s still within that same mission statement.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Well, and then just doing all of that work, those people in that community see you doing that, and then they’re like, oh, yeah, well, if she’s … And then let’s say that they’ve got some kind of designer breed or whatever in addition to whatever, they’re like, oh, well she does rescue. She’s going to be able to handle our Frenchie, no problem. Or Labradoodle or whatever. And that goes with portraits too. It’s like I think people can look at my website and go, okay, she can deal with these kids are doing backflips, they’re obviously crazy. She’s going to be able to handle our brand of crazy.
Jen Hillenga: Right. 100%. I don’t know. Dog world in New York is so tight-knit that I think it’s just a natural evolution that it just carries on through the rest of all of the communities. And then there’s things like working with trainers and dog brands and businesses and New York is like the center of everything. So, I’m lucky in that regard that-
Allison Tyler Jones: You can really, really niche in New York. You can niche in New York like you can’t anywhere else. However, what would you say to people that don’t live in New York that maybe want to niche even say pet photographer or whatever, if you were not doing this in New York, would you have done anything different?
Jen Hillenga: I don’t know that I would’ve done anything different. And I don’t know. For me, I was in Midwest previous and had a studio that did not niche down for anything. I was in Minneapolis, everything was very seasonal, and I always used to say, if it has two eyes and moves, I’m going to photograph it and maybe also your product that doesn’t move. I didn’t niche at all, but I burned out and I didn’t love it and I don’t love all genres, but because I had all this overhead, I just had to take everything that came at me. And just for me mindset wise, I turned down so many things now, weddings and all of these other things, people, well, do you do babies? Do you do weddings? Do you do this? And I said, “If it doesn’t have a dog, I’m not doing it.” And I stick to that and I think, I don’t know if I were somewhere else if I would be able to stick to it as much as I do, but I do think it’s possible.
Jen Hillenga: I mean, almost every community except for some very small towns, but even very small towns, they all have a rescue. They all have people with dogs. And what’s interesting is I was just recently on another very dog world podcast and they were talking about how the world, and I don’t want to get into politics and economics and all of that, but only to say that the world is changing and more people are adopting dogs than having children these days. And that the idea of family is shifting a bit to include not only your family, but also your chosen family and your animal family.
Jen Hillenga: The world is definitely moving in that direction where the choices that we’re making for the creatures and people and things that we value and keep as family is shifting. So, I don’t think that this is a impossibility no matter where you are. I do think that it is easier for me. One thing that’s interesting and said it a million times, this is the easiest brand I’ve ever built, and the reason why, I think, is when clients are out here and they are looking for a photographer, when you’re looking for a wedding photographer, it’s because you’re getting married. When you’re looking for a children’s photographer, you have children. When you’re looking for a high school senior, it’s because you have a kid graduating, all these things.
Jen Hillenga: I have so many photographers that don’t even have a dog and everybody’s just following along to see the dogs. I have a million people, not a million. I have 11,000 people following my Instagram in four years, and a big portion of them are just here to see cute dogs. They’re not actually even looking for a photographer, they’re just following along because of the dog content. So, that has made creating an engaged following very easy. My following isn’t huge. Like I said, it’s 11,000 followers, but every time I post even a static image post on Instagram, I’ll get anywhere from 200 to 800 likes static.
Allison Tyler Jones: So, really engaged. Yeah.
Jen Hillenga: They’re very engaged and they’re very hyper local. They are New York City dog world, and I think that is more important than big numbers.
Allison Tyler Jones: Quality over quantity. For sure. For sure. So, I have other questions.
Jen Hillenga: Okay.
Allison Tyler Jones: So, what then was your approach once you basically built the store, right? You had the product on the shelf as far as we have a portfolio built, all of that. What was your approach to pricing or creating a sales process or product? Do you have any thoughts about that? What was the product that you wanted to sell? How did you do that?
Jen Hillenga: We all have thoughts on that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes we do.
Jen Hillenga: So, because I started my photography journey in, let me think, 1997 before digital, I was shooting on Hasselblad with a light meter and forever. So, I do come from old school portrait world before the world went digital and all this. So, I do believe in printing and that if you’re not offering those products to your clients, you’re leaving money on the table. But I don’t get super caught up in the argument about prints versus digitals because I understand the value in both. And I think that I was doing digital sales a long time before a lot of photographers were doing it. I was doing it back in portrait world 15, 20 years ago I was doing digital sales and everybody was like, “You’re crazy.” And I’m like, “Why? It’s just a medium.” If you’re getting paid for your images and paid for your time and creativity, I get wanting to be a purist, but it never really made sense to me.
Jen Hillenga: And the thing that changed my mind, we had a client who was a tech buyer, and he said, “I don’t care what you charge me”, which is the golden phrase, “I don’t care what you charge me, but I have this new TV that I can upload images to and that’s how I want to view these. So, how much will you charge me to give me these files?” I’m like, oh, that goes back to the golden rule of never say no to anything, just put a price tag on it, it makes you happy. It’s like, okay, I get it. 90% of my clients now print, which is crazy to me. But the way that I go about that is anything that they print, they get the digital with it if you print it or you can purchase digitals on their own, but to purchase digital images is more expensive than getting the print and the digital with it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it.
Jen Hillenga: So, I do all my sales over Zoom because we’re in New York and otherwise it’s crazy.
Allison Tyler Jones: Nobody got time to park.
Jen Hillenga: Ain’t nobody got time for that to take three subways to get to your studio. No. I do 90% of my sessions on location and 10% in studio. My studio space I share with other photographers who are much more famous than I am, and we split a studio space in midtown Manhattan, and it’s wonderful. It’s like 900 square foot, two walls of windows. Gorgeous. But we split that rent. So, my product line is very simple and it’s all on my website and very transparent. I don’t need anything to be hoops or anything that anybody has to jump through.
Allison Tyler Jones: Doesn’t have to be fancy.
Jen Hillenga: It’s not crazy. It’s not a weird complicated system. This is the products that I like. That’s all I offer. If you don’t like it, great. Buy digitals. I don’t care. Print your own thing somewhere else. These are what I like. This is what I’m going to sell, and everything is very upfront and honest, and I don’t go shopping up for myself without knowing how much something costs. And I’m not going to be able to go in and just drop whatever I want at Louis Vuitton. I don’t want to go in and then get to the register and then be like, oh, well that’s $14,000. Oh, well, that’s not in the budget. I shouldn’t have been in there shopping. So, if my potential clients go to my website and they see the stuff and they’re like, oh, I can’t afford this. Great. I don’t want to waste time photographing you. There is another photographer who can do that for you that will be happy to do that. So, I’m very upfront and honest and there are no contracts. There’s no any of those hoops for … It’s dog photography. It ain’t that serious, man.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, well, it is. Well, okay, I would push back on that. I think it is that serious and it is that meaningful, but you know who you are that you’re going to deliver. You’ve set your bar, the brand is very clear, and then obviously you’re talking to the client to get them ready. They know what they’re getting in for. And so it’s like the contracts are only as good as the people that are signing them. So, if they’re a jerk before you shoot the dog-
Jen Hillenga: I’m going to know …
Allison Tyler Jones: You shouldn’t book it. Then we’re not booking you.
Jen Hillenga: I do think though, that there is a psychology behind setting people up to think that there’s going to be a problem.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, absolutely.
Jen Hillenga: And I’ve never wanted to do, and it’s different when it’s weddings. I understand that-
Allison Tyler Jones: No weddings, totally different.
Jen Hillenga: Wedding contracts or-
Allison Tyler Jones: Big commercial contracts.
Jen Hillenga: Commercial work or things where there’s licensing or things like that. That’s what I mean when I say it’s not that serious. It’s dog photography. What are you going to do? Sue me over posting your Corgi? Prove it’s your Corgi. Okay. I don’t know. I think when you present people with all of these hoops that they need to jump through, it gives them a mindset that, oh, things could go wrong. Things could go awry. This person is covering their ass.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, I always feel like, oh, I’m being punished for the last 10 people that came through here who had a problem with.
Jen Hillenga: It’s an immediate, oh, you don’t trust me? And I want there to be nothing but feel good trust between my clients and I. So, I don’t put up any of those gates to keep people … And don’t make it difficult for people to give you money.
Allison Tyler Jones: Exactly.
Jen Hillenga: Well, do you take Venmo? Do you take Cash App? Do you take cash? Do you take American Express? Yes.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes.
Jen Hillenga: And I’m going to show you the portals to do all of that, and I am not going to have you jump through hoops to do any of that. I’m not going to have you jump through hoops to get the session. The only hoop that you have to jump through is you have to talk to me before we do this. That’s it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. And so what does that look like? Are you doing that over Zoom or are you-
Jen Hillenga: I am just doing a phone call for that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Phone call?
Jen Hillenga: … because I don’t want to shower every day.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Jen Hillenga: I have learned, I’m a person who is an ADHD control freak perfectionist who sometimes has to learn the hard way about delegation and automation. So, those are fun lessons to learn. I recently just put up, I can’t believe it took me this long, which is always the case. I fight everything until I do the thing. And then I’m like, why did it take so long? But I just started doing the automated email to the response … I’m sorry, let me back up. They go on the line online and if they look at Instagram and they send me a DM, I send them to the website to fill out the contact information. You cannot get to me until you fill out that contact form because it gives me information about where you live, who you are, what your dog is like. I want those notes that I can put in later because knowing myself, I will forget all these things if you tell me. I need it to be someplace where I can copy and paste it.
Jen Hillenga: So, you have to fill that out. And then I have template emails in Gmail, and one of them is I can instantly send you this session request that says, thank you so much for reaching out. I can’t wait to learn all about your dog, etc, etc. Use this link to book your fifteen-minute phone call. So, I have the Calendly booking that they can book there and I book their consultation and I really do only take 15 minutes on those. That’s all I need. That’s all they need. Let’s talk through the details, figure out where we’re going to go, and I go into each one of those consults with … All this goes back to mindset. I go into each one of those consults with the mindset that they will be booking. It’s not an interview process. They’ve looked at the website, they have done enough work to click this button to make this appointment.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, if it’s an interview process, it’s you’re interviewing them.
Jen Hillenga: Right, right.
Allison Tyler Jones: Not the other way around.
Jen Hillenga: This isn’t a fact. And because I have-
Allison Tyler Jones: This isn’t like a sell yourself thing, this is like-
Jen Hillenga: No, and because this is also not a fact-finding mission. Ask me a bunch of questions. No, I gave you all the answers. It’s all on the website. It’s very much out there. If we’re having this conversation, you’ve decided to move forward. That’s what the mindset is when I go into each one of these calls. So, I’m closing it, I’ll give them the information. It is so rare that I don’t book the session that this is your time to book the session. So, we’ll talk about what to expect during the session, how I’m going to interact with your dog based on the information that you’ve given me about what your dog is. Are they reactive? Are they going to bite me? Are they going to be happy for treats and whatever, where we’re going to do this, is it a location around New York City?
Jen Hillenga: Am I traveling? Are you coming to the studio? Am I going to your apartment? What are we doing? And great, let’s pick a day. And then also talking through the process of there are no images included in the session fee. If you haven’t looked at it already, here is where the pricing is. This is how normally my clients engage with the images and purchase. We will do this on Zoom. We will do it five to seven days after your session depending on when we’re free. And we will narrow down your images and then you will choose and you will do all of this. Here’s the prices. Let’s go through it. So that they can’t get to that Zoom. And sometimes people pretend that they haven’t had this information.
Allison Tyler Jones: Amnesia. I call it amnesia.
Jen Hillenga: Right. But I recently had somebody that said, “It would’ve been nice to know this.” I’m like, “Are you kidding me? I told you 14 times by the time we got to this point.” It would’ve been nice? Okay.
Allison Tyler Jones: Would’ve been nice for you to listen.
Jen Hillenga: Yeah, right. It would’ve been nice if you’d have paid attention. We can agree on that. But no, you know where this was. What? So, going through that process so that nobody is caught off guard, nobody has sticker shock. It can be an uncomfortable conversation ahead of time. Because so often, and I still get that way, I’m a little bit like, okay, would I pay for this? I’m not my client and I think I would, but it can be uncomfortable at the beginning of this conversation, but it’s going to be way less uncomfortable than when you’re sitting on Zoom later trying to sell these and now they’re trying to, what you expected the order to be is now a quarter of that because they were uninformed.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. And they’re mad.
Jen Hillenga: Yeah, they’re upset.
Allison Tyler Jones: Because they-
Jen Hillenga: They want it, now they can’t have it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. And you’re the one preventing that from happening. Yeah. It’s just a no-win.
Jen Hillenga: Two things, and again, it goes back to that mindset of no hoops, no drama, no bad feelings. Because at that point, if you’ve gotten to the Zoom call and the sale and they’re upset, you’re only choice is that they’re either going to be mad at you or you are going to bend and compromise and make less money. Those are your only options. And either way, one of you is going to feel bad.
Allison Tyler Jones: So, much better to get it out, have the uncomfortable conversation ahead of time, and then they can decide not to book. Or if they have decided to book, they have a few days before the shoot to pull the plug or commit or whatever. But you do need a time, I think for that to happen.
Jen Hillenga: Yeah. And the session fee that they pay to get on my calendar is non-refundable. So, if you get sticker shock after the fact, you’re still going to pay me that session fee. Because that’s going to cover the time that I took to talk to you and figure this all out. And it’s rare that somebody is like, it has to be usually that something has happened in between in my life, between when we have this phone call and I will be gracious if I need to be with that session fee depending on what, but it’s so rare of an occurrence that it doesn’t matter that much. But everybody needs to know ahead of time what they’re getting in for so that everybody can enjoy the experience.
Jen Hillenga: And I will also, again, don’t make it hard for people to give you money. I do offer payment plans and I’ll talk through it if they’re like, oh, this is more than I expected. And be like, this is in line with what is to be expected of professional photography, but if this is too much for you, I understand we can postpone, do this another time when you’ve had time to think about it and prepare for it. Or we can go forward and know that there is a payment plan situation. I only do up to six months, six payments, and I explain what that looks like and how that works.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, okay. So, I love about what you just said there is that the first thing wasn’t, when they said, wow, this is more than what I thought wasn’t like, well, we only use the finest materials and I have had 30 years experience, and it’s not a defensive. It’s like, well, this is what is in line with professional photography. You’re just letting them know, obviously you’re not versed in this. I am, and this is … So, I think that’s a really good response to that. This is in line. This is not crazy.
Jen Hillenga: Also, when you reframe everything, and I don’t know if that’s just age or coming to this point in my life, but I’ve reframed everything that when somebody says, this is too expensive, I don’t hear an accusation of you are too expensive. I hear, I can’t afford it. And that’s a reframe that gives you a lot more empathy and less defensive mindset. Because you’re like, they’re not personally attacking me. This is something that they want and now they’re realizing it’s not something that they can easily have. So, how do we reframe that so we can say, I understand. I understand that this is something that is very exciting, but it’s very, it’s not so easy to achieve. So, what makes you comfortable and how can I assist you to be able to achieve this? Is it a payment plan? Is it owning-
Allison Tyler Jones: You’re just helping them solve that problem?
Jen Hillenga: I would ask people, okay, I understand that this is not something that you can do now. Would you like me to reach out in six months? And I will ask them if they want me to follow up. I said, I’m happy. I understand that this isn’t something, but do you want me to check back later and remind you that this is something that you wanted? And just giving people empathy. Like there’s times in my life that I can’t afford the things that I want, but if somebody says, okay, great, you’re not my client and they just hang up the phone, I’m never going back there. But what if my life changes and now all of a sudden this thing that I want becomes attainable, I’m going to go back to the person who had understanding and kindness about it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Well, and not only, I think most of the people that are listening are not going to do the pretty woman. We don’t have that in your size.
Jen Hillenga: Big mistake. Huge.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, they’re not going to do that. But what they might do, what I see a lot of photographers do is interpret just what you just said. That’s too expensive. Interpret that as you second, it’s not worth it or it’s not worth it. Or let’s say that they did go to the, I can’t afford it, and then they get judgy and they look at what they drove up in or the house, if you’re doing it on Zoom, the house they’re behind or, oh, I saw her. She had a Louis Vuitton purse, or they own this company, or they’re friends with so-and-so and so I know they have the money. It’s like, not your business. Doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter.
Jen Hillenga: Doesn’t matter.
Allison Tyler Jones: Doesn’t matter.
Jen Hillenga: Absolutely. And you’re so often wrong when you make those assumptions. Sometimes, it’s not always, but sometimes the people who spend their money on the things don’t care about spending their money on the moments and vice versa. So, sometimes when they have different values and when you-
Allison Tyler Jones: They can’t wear that portrait around when they’re out to dinner with their friends, the portrait’s not hanging on their arm.
Jen Hillenga: Sometimes when you don’t have those materialistic things, you might save to value the things that are important to you. Maybe your dog is 14 years old and you know that you’re going to have to put it down soon, but you just don’t know that person’s life and their mentality and why they’re doing this. So, I always assume that the conversation that happens around me when I’m not around is she’s expensive, but she’s worth it. And if that’s not, then great. There’s a million people in the city. There’s a million photographers to go around. We don’t have to be a match, but we don’t need to be rude about it.
Allison Tyler Jones: And I think coming from that place of compassion, even if you do have that little bit of judgment in your mind, if you are saying, well, I could do the payment plan or we could book this for another time, but mainly you’re keeping the focus on in your world, documenting the dog, documenting the passion for that animal and keeping it to the vision, the main reason why we’re doing this. And then people get behind that and they’re not mad at you. They’re like, she was so great when I talked to her, she told me about how it worked and what do they always say? Thank you so much for spending the time. I will call you back. Or I just needed a quick thing for just our holiday card. I didn’t realize this was a whole thing, so let me call you back when I’m ready to do the whole thing, we’re about to adopt another dog.
Jen Hillenga: I also will, because I have changed my relationship with money and my mindset around it. I’m very honest with people about that. And I will literally say to people, “Listen, I get it. I understand, and I honestly don’t care what you buy. I really truly don’t.” And I give them people that knowledge to be like, oh, okay, well then it’s okay because I really do feel that way because I have changed my goals and my metrics for success and my mindset around all of it, and I believe that it all evens out.
Jen Hillenga: I will tell people, “Listen, my business is different now than other businesses that I’ve had in the past, and I used to care very much because I had a lot of overhead and a lot of employees, and it’s just me. So, I want everyone to have a great photo of their dog longer than they have their dog. And if that means that you can buy one, I’m okay with that. If it means that you can wallpaper your apartment and do four books and four wall portraits, great. I’m okay with that too. But I really truly don’t want you to feel bad about it because I do not care. My goal here is to celebrate you with your dog.”
Jen Hillenga: That’s it. And I’m honest about that, and I think that that is a hard place to come to. But I will share that with clients who might not have the big budgets. And selfishly, when I do share that, I know that that experience for them that they’re going to talk about the fact that I wasn’t just this greedy person that tried to get all their money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They’re going to talk about the experience if they choose to pull the trigger knowing that maybe they’re going to spend $500 and most of the time they’re going to spend more than what they tell you their budget is going to be.
Allison Tyler Jones: Always. Yeah. I mean, I do that. Whenever I call somebody, you’re thinking it’s going to be lower than what you do. You don’t know what you’re going to do until you get there, which is a metaphor for life.
Jen Hillenga: You don’t know what you’re going to do until you fall in love with everything. And I have people all the time that think, oh gosh, I thought I was going to spend $500, but I can’t walk away from this. Great. Do you want to pay for this amount now and put the rest on a payment plan? Because then you get these now and we can talk about how to make these available for you down the line. There’s a million different ways to do this, and I don’t care how you do it.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. I love that. Well, so many good takeaways, so many good just words and wording. It’s just so obvious that you’ve loved your clients in every business that you’ve had, whether it was filling your soul or not, you’ve always given the best, and I’ve loved to hear you speak. You’ve given so much to the industry, and as we head off, I would love to just ask you one last question, which is what would you tell someone who’s maybe where you were years back who are just feeling really burned out, stuck? Maybe they’re feeling like you say, we’re in this kind of a weird place in the world, feeling scared, hopeless, or just not at their top of their game, and they just feeling like maybe they want to reinvent or just somebody that’s discouraged. What words would you have for them?
Jen Hillenga: I think it would tell people that again, there are no rules and it’s never too late. And that if you are moving forward in a way that aligns with your soul and with who you want to be and the service that you want to provide, that you can change that trajectory at any point and that you can change the rules and that there is an audience for you no matter what it is. So, if you want to change, you’ve been a family photographer your whole life and you want to do pets or you’ve been doing weddings and you want to switch to babies or whatever it is, great. Nobody gets to define that for you, and 99% of the time, the people who love your work and love you will just follow along. Clients will do whatever you tell them to do, and if you stick to your guns, you can create that business.
Jen Hillenga: It gets difficult when you don’t stick to it when you’re like, oh, well, for this moment I’ll do that, or whatever. And again, you’re mad at yourself for giving in to something you didn’t really want to do. So, I think it’s important to just move forward with intention, whatever that is, and figure out what your alignment is and what your goals are and who you are and what problem you want to solve and who you want to be for yourself and for your clients, and then that audience will find you and that audience will follow you.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that when you get to that point where you’re turning things down, you want from a girl who was like, if it has two eyes, I’ll shoot it, or I’ll shoot your product, or basically, if you’ll pay me to show up with a camera, I’ll do it. I think that resonates with everybody. But then when you niche, then it’s like it feels super, super scary and how do you say no? And so do you have a mantra? Are there things that you tell yourself? What has allowed you, other than just age and perspective, has there been mental shifts that you’ve literally had to tell yourself it’s going to be okay? Are you meditating? What is the thing that’s allowing you to say no to things that people are willing to pay you to do?
Jen Hillenga: Right. I think that what plays in my brain when I do that, when I turn things down is I’m not going to be happy doing that thing. I’m going to hate doing that thing, and the time and the energy it takes to do that thing is going to take away the time and the energy that I could be focusing on doing something that I like, that I love, that is going to pay me, and that thing that I dislike is going to steal what I like.
Allison Tyler Jones: So true, and how I do it for me is I am forward casting, so I think, okay, here’s the request. I think, okay, I’ve just shot that. How do I feel? Then that usually tells me whether I want to do it or not. You think ahead, I don’t want to do that.
Jen Hillenga: Yeah. Oh, 100%. If you’re looking at anything that’s in your calendar with dread, hoping it rains so you can cancel it. Oh my God, the amount of times I used to pray for rain just so that I wouldn’t have to do the family portrait or the whatever, it’s like you’re going to have to do it eventually. Now you’re just postponing it. But if you’re looking at anything in your calendar with dread, stop doing it. Why? Because it’s going to pay you $400 or $1,000. I don’t even care what the price tag is. If you are hating that time that it takes to do that thing, then you’ve wasted that time, and if you don’t like who you are when you are doing this particular job, then you’ve wasted that day being somebody you don’t want to be.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Jen Hillenga: It doesn’t make sense.
Allison Tyler Jones: And you extrapolate that out over time, and it’s your life.
Jen Hillenga: Right. Then all of a sudden you wake up and you’re like, who have I been for 15 years? What have I spent my time and energy on? I’m not happy. I don’t even care if my bank account looks good because why? I’m not happy, and life’s too short to just live it in unhappiness.
Allison Tyler Jones: So true. I love it. Well, you are the best. Thank you so much for spending the time.
Jen Hillenga: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. This is fun.
Allison Tyler Jones: We’re going to do this again because I literally have two pages-
Jen Hillenga: Got through half.
Allison Tyler Jones: … of other questions. Yeah, I know. I’m like, yeah, no, but it’s so good, and you have such a fine mind, and I mean, it’s just so obvious that you’ve been in the trenches and that you’ve been through this, and so it’s really, I think there are many photographers that I talk to are reinventing themselves. They’re at this phase of life where they’re coming out of one thing and going into something else, and so I think this will resonate for people that are never going to shoot pets. It’s just that idea of reinventing and realigning with who you really are.
Jen Hillenga: And I really think for me, the takeaway at the end of this journey so far has been that I don’t have to adhere to the rules that even in this industry that people said you have to do, whether it’s you have to do digitals, you have to do prints, you have to do people, you have to do this or whatever. It’s like there are no rules. Do whatever you want to do. You’re going to find your people.
Allison Tyler Jones: So true.
Jen Hillenga: Or your dogs, whichever the case.
Allison Tyler Jones: Or your people.
Jen Hillenga: Or your dog people.
Allison Tyler Jones: Or your dog people or your dogs.
Jen Hillenga: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: Thanks.
Jen Hillenga: Amazing. Thank you for having me.
Allison Tyler Jones: Thank you.
Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com and on Instagram at do.the.ReWork.
