Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, A podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little rework. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini-workshops, and behind-the-scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the rework.

Allison Tyler Jones: Hi, friends, and welcome back to the ReWork. Running a portrait business is one thing, running it while raising kids, managing a household, and juggling all the chaos that life throws at you, that my friends, is an entirely different skill set. And in today’s episode of The ReWork, I am speaking with a new friend, Anjana Olson from Iowa, about what it really means to work like a mother, the balance, the boundaries, the big picture thinking that keeps both her business and her family thriving. We’re going to dig into how to prioritize without guilt, how to say yes and no with confidence, and how to build a business that actually supports the life you want rather than draining it. Hello, valuing yourself and pricing yourself correctly. So if you’ve ever wondered how to keep all the plates spinning without losing your mind or your profit, this conversation is for you. Let’s do it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, recently I have made a new friend, and I am so excited to introduce you to her. Anjana Olson is from Iowa. She is an amazing photographer there. She has a portrait studio that she’s shooting families, and lots of different things that we’re going to talk about today. But the reason that I wanted to bring on to the podcast was that first of all, she’s a boy mom extraordinaire, and I want to talk today with her about pricing value, being a mom, working, being a professional, and how you put all that stuff together when you’re starting a business and feeling like, “”I don’t know what I’m doing. So welcome, Anj. I’m so glad that you’re here.

Anjana Olson: Thank you. I am so happy to be here. This is going to be a great conversation.

Allison Tyler Jones: I’m super excited. So give our listeners a little, who are you? What are you doing, all that stuff?

Anjana Olson: Who am I? Okay. One, I’m a mom. I’m a wife. I’m an artist. That is the crux of my being. I always say people are multifaceted human beings, so be all that you are. I have three boys. They’re 11, 9, and 6, and they have been home all summer, so we are very excited for school to start in two weeks.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, yes. Counting the moments. Do you have your advent chain of tearing it off the little construction paper link every day?

Anjana Olson: Mom does, the others don’t?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes. Yes, totally.

Anjana Olson: Yeah. So I’ve been in Iowa for 12 years. I grew up in Iowa, moved to Kansas City because I wanted a little bit of the big city life, but also adore my parents, so wanted to stay close, and then we came back and settled in Iowa and opened the studio and had our third son.

Allison Tyler Jones: How long ago did you open your studio?

Anjana Olson: Probably it would’ve been 2011.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. And so, had you always done photography, or how did you do that?

Anjana Olson: Yeah, my BFA is in charcoal illustration. I love art. I also have a second degree nutritional science. So the reason I mentioned that is because photography was the perfect combination of science and art for me. I love the type aspects of lighting and all that, but the creativity in me wasn’t going anywhere. So this was a good marriage of that. I actually met my husband working for his mom and sister. We have a studio in Ames, Iowa. And I worked there out of college, and then we got married, moved to Kansas City as I mentioned, and then came back and I opened my own studio.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. That’s amazing.

Anjana Olson: Short journey.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. No, but so fun. So his family has a portrait studio. Do they still have the studio?

Anjana Olson: Yes, they have a studio. It’s attached to our home, and they kind of do photography, I would say, as it comes their way kind of thing. You’re active in it, but I think they also have other priorities, so it’s kind of the perfect-

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, it’s like a little semi-retired stuff.

Anjana Olson: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. I love that. Okay. Well, yay. So let’s talk about, so 2011. So you’re 14 years in then, which is a long time.

Anjana Olson: Thank you for doing that math.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes, I know. Well, trust me, anybody that knows me, especially if any of my siblings are listening to this, they’re going to be like, “Wait, how did she do that? Does she have her phone on her?” Because yeah, I don’t do math.

Anjana Olson: Me either.

Allison Tyler Jones: So what has been that journey? Do you feel like the mom changed you? Before we started to record we talked a little bit about that we want to talk about pricing, but say more about that.

Anjana Olson: Yeah, the studio has evolved. It is not the studio I started with for sure. It has evolved immensely. I definitely started… Before children was the first starting of the studio, and I had amazing people in my life. Dan and Alex McClanahan lived… We lived in their building, and they were right next door. Dan would sneeze in a studio or I would sneeze in my apartment, and Dan from the studio would yell, “Bless you.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, how cute.

Anjana Olson: And they were huge in that beginning bit of just reinforcing what it means to price all of the value in that. And yes, I understood. People say, “Do wall art because you can sell and you make all this money,” and I think in my brain, at that point, it was a little bit more of a, yes, wall art is money. I had a love for fine art because of my degree. So I definitely knew I wanted to go that direction, but it wasn’t until I had my kids and started evolving through that, that I really began to value my time. And what it means to price yourself based on your time, your artistry, what you want to offer your clients, how you offer that. So once I had my first son, it was a mix of… And I’m sure many of us start this way, but I was home with my son and then also doing portraits in a sunroom off the back of our studio or off the back of the house. And it was tiny, but I still priced myself at a place that felt appropriate for what I was doing.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. So I want to ask about that. So what do you mean by that, appropriate for what you’re doing? Say more about that. Yeah.

Anjana Olson: So what that meant for me at that time was it meant that I was offering things that I could do well. So I knew in that small space I could do newborn photography because it was small and babies were small, and I had access to a bathroom and I could clean out my living room, and there was space. It meant that I was pricing my newborn packages to include wall art, but also fully aware that I could not do as much as I wanted. I did not have space to frame large portraits. I didn’t have space to store that kind of equipment with babies around and things like that. So there was a little bit of, okay, awareness of this is where I’m starting, but let’s price myself in a way that I can grow and both be content with the fact that this is all I can do right now, but I am going to evolve as an artist, as my season of life changes.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, I love that because I think so many people, all of us listening to this can relate that your physical space that you’re shooting in, whether it’s home, a huge retail studio, it does so inform the work.

Anjana Olson: Absolutely.

Allison Tyler Jones: It just does. Those adjacencies, how close your lights have to be to your subjects and how much space you have and how much depth. But what I love more about what you just said is that realizing like, okay, this is what I have now, but the goal is it still needs to be a business.

Anjana Olson: Absolutely.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right? Because Otherwise, you have a young kid, you can work for free just playing with him.

Anjana Olson: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And some of it was looking at a lot, and I want to preface with saying, there’s nothing wrong with being a digital photographer. Everyone should make the choices that they need to make to have the life that they want. But I did notice that it was really hard for me to leave my children for $350 for all the digital images. That was not worth it for me.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, if you’d left your children and just went and spent that hour and turned over those images in that hour and only spent that hour for 350, that might’ve been the thing. But it’s the coming back and loading and editing that we sometimes don’t take into account when you’re starting and you’re new.

Anjana Olson: Yes, and the resentment that comes with that. You don’t want to resent your clients.

Allison Tyler Jones: No.

Anjana Olson: And I found that when I made allowances on my pricing or thought, “Oh, you know what? It’s okay. I need the money. I’ll just do something cheaper,” what came along with that were feelings that I did not appreciate and that were not fair to my client.

Allison Tyler Jones: And you had nobody to blame. You’re blaming them, you’re mad at them, you’re withholding from them. You’re not giving the best service because you’re like, “I’m not going to retouch this when she’s only paid $350.”

Anjana Olson: Exactly.

Allison Tyler Jones: But yet you’re the one that set the price, but we’re mad at them.

Anjana Olson: Absolutely. That is exactly what was happening. And that cycle needed to shift. And so when I started this, it was, okay, what are my values? How do I want to spend my time? How much do I want to get paid to leave my child? As long as I’m making that minimum at this moment, then I am okay. At the same time, my husband, we were flip-flopping. My husband was working at a… I think it was small farm tools or something, and not really… It wasn’t a great job. And I was working also part-time at Anthropologie because I love their clothing, and I wanted to be around a semi-luxury brand, or to be able to give myself a, this is where you will shop at some point.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.

Anjana Olson: It was good mindset. But we took turns kind of flip-flopping on, okay, we moved back to Iowa and he’s unemployed, so he stays home with the kids, and we put all the profit that we made out of selling our home into the studio, and that’s when I made a big shift. We put a projector on a tiny room. We were in this farmhouse, but it was on an acreage, so I knew I could photograph outside, and it had an upstairs room that we didn’t use as the bedroom because it was studio worthy. And so I think we put… Gosh, it had to have been almost 30 grand into that. I mean, we got a projector. We bought samples.

Allison Tyler Jones: Not hard to do. Yeah.

Anjana Olson: No. And what I realized really quickly is that when your partner believes in you and when you believe in yourself, and when you are pricing yourself in a way that is really responding to what you value, then you speak with confidence to your clients. The first sale I made, and I want to preface also with the fact that these are not normal sales for me. I mean, they’re all over the place. The first sale I made was $13,000 in that tiny room. And within three months, we had paid… All the money that we had put into it, we had taken care of it. And need can be such a great motivator.

Allison Tyler Jones: I was just going to say, nothing focuses the mind like overhead.

Anjana Olson: Yes, absolutely.

Allison Tyler Jones: When you just drop some serious coin on a build out, you’re like, “This has to work.” You’re no longer dabbling. These kids have got to eat. Here we go.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And I’m listening to my husband there with two kids, and he’s like, “Okay, I got to start looking for a job soon, too.” And I’m like, “All right, we got a timeline. We have all of these things,” but, again, the more I was valuing my time, the higher my prices went. And every time I had a baby, my prices went up 5 to 10%. And from a client perspective, that’s probably hard for clients to hear because they’re kind of like, “Well, that’s not fair to us.” But the experience that I offer, the artistry that I offer changes and grows as I value that time.

Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely. And I also think that if any of our clients are listening to this, we all know of vendors that we have used in our lives that you love and that are so good at what they do, and that totally undervalue who they are. And that they don’t raise their prices. And then you can maybe feel a little bit of withholding from them, and then you’re like, “Look, charge me more because I love you and I value you, and I think what you’re doing is great.”

Allison Tyler Jones: So it’s not that you’re like, “Okay, I have another baby now. I want my clients to subsidize this.” That’s not where you’re coming from at all. I think it’s more of a realization of, “Holy crap, I really have been undervaluing. I’ve been not really…” Usually what I find is more people are not paying attention to how much labor is required to create the work, how much actual time is going into it. And you just have to factor that in.

Anjana Olson: And it also goes into what do you want your days to look like? What do you want your weeks to look like? That just looking at our time together as a family, I realized very quickly that probably the maximum amount of sessions per month I will do is four to five. What does that look like when you go backwards? How much money do I have to make per client to make that worth it? And also, what do I want to sell that I love that my clients can enjoy so that that whole time with the client is not me… It never feels like work.

Anjana Olson: It’s a relationship. It’s me providing a service that that client wants, and I’m selling something I love. But there was that journey of going backwards, like, okay, this is the amount of time I want to have with my family. How much time does it take me to service a client from start to finish from that first email to closing? How much do I want to make for that? And what does that mean I schedule for my month?

Allison Tyler Jones: It’s so true. And I feel like this is something that so many photographers don’t do, and it’s not a hard thing. It’s literally, it’s like plus math, plus and minus math, or maybe a little bit of multiplication.

Anjana Olson: Well, for two people who don’t do math, if we can do it, I mean.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right, anybody can do this.

Anjana Olson: Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: But I think, so what I love about what you’re saying that makes me think of the book Oversubscribed is talking about you have to define your capacity. How much can one person do? And you could do a lot more, but how much could me, Anj, do with my boys, with the life that I want to live? I want to be a present as a mother, but I also want to pay my house payment, and I also want to send my kids to college, and I also want my husband to be home with my kids. There’s a lot of things there.

Allison Tyler Jones: And then you’re like, okay, so then this is the amount we need. Then I can do four to five sessions. How much do those sessions need to make each? And then what’d you do? Now you know, you have your capacity. You’ve defined that you want to do four to five sessions a month. You’ve defined what it is that you love, how you like your work to be displayed and presented. And so then where did you go from there on the pricing?

Anjana Olson: From there it was… And I worked with Greg Daniel.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yep. Love him.

Anjana Olson: Adore him

Allison Tyler Jones: The best.

Anjana Olson: And he just poured into a lot of, okay, how do you turn this pyramid upside down? And what is your flagstone product and why do you want to sell that? And then all of your pricing is based off of that. And so for me, it was wall art. It was framed museum art. I adore walking through galleries. I give me a cup of coffee, a sketchbook, and a museum, and I’ll never come out. And so that’s what I want for my clients’ homes. Now, what I struggled with in the beginning was that niching of, there’s a lot of clients that do not want that, and I shouldn’t say clients because they’re not my clients.

Allison Tyler Jones: There are diluted people that do not understand how great that is.

Anjana Olson: Yes, and I don’t understand. It was hard for me in the beginning to hear no, because who doesn’t love to be loved? And there was a side of me that was like, wow, there are a lot of people saying no. There’s a lot of people saying, “That’s not what I want. Great. I just want this…” I don’t even know what they wanted, but probably digital.

Allison Tyler Jones: Digital files. Yeah.

Anjana Olson: Well, one thing it made me think, okay, why are you getting these inquiries? What do you need to change in your communication, in your imagery, in your voice? How can you educate people so that they’re not inquiring?

Allison Tyler Jones: Right, because it hurts my heart to hear the no.

Anjana Olson: Yeah, I don’t want to hear that. And so now it’s become way less inquiries.

Allison Tyler Jones: So what do you feel like you did? What did you do to change the message? Or what did you do?

Anjana Olson: All imagery, and this again goes back to Greg talking about what you see is what you buy. So it became a complete shift on my social media. I will show works of art. If it’s digital imagery, it’s branding or headshot versus the family and children and newborn and all that. Education and the way I talk is always geared toward portraits. My website doesn’t show any digital image that is not framed or artwork or on a wall. And that drastically cut down inquiries because you would take one look and know that, “Oh, she does that.” And if you don’t want that, you’re not inquiring.

Allison Tyler Jones: Which is just sounds like it’s stabbing you in the heart, but it’s actually not stabbing you in the heart because they never call. You don’t have to be stabbed in the heart. They go to somebody else.

Anjana Olson: And you know what? I wish I were a stone-cold human being, but unfortunately I have maybe too much emotion and it is protection. And there is this… I think wrestling. Well, one, the emotion made me think of this, like being a woman and being a professional and navigating that world and feeling as though alongside all of these thoughts of, okay, I want to make enough money. I want to make sure I’m valuing myself. All that is, who do I have to be as a woman in this world? Who is society telling me I need to be as a professional? And what I was seeing was that you either send your kids to daycare all day and be a professional, or you stay home with your kids. Those were the two messages that were being sent my way.

Anjana Olson: I thrive as a mother because of my creative outlet and having my studio and being with my clients and a professional, and I thrive as a professional and an artist because of being fed as a mother and a wife and a family individual.

Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.

Anjana Olson: I could not choose either one.

Allison Tyler Jones: And you don’t have to. It’s a false binary.

Anjana Olson: And it’s not a balance. There are times where the studio gets more attention, and there are times where I make sure that I have margin to spend days with my children. We took three weeks off this summer to take my boys to India for the first time.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, that’s amazing.

Anjana Olson: And it was mind-blowing, it was life-changing. It so many things and not feeling guilt for choosing my children.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, and I love what you just said. I think it could not have said that better, just so it was very profound. And this is not just women. This is any creative professional, in my opinion. You can do it how you want. It doesn’t matter how it’s been done by anybody else ever before. If anything, the arts prove that over and over again. We’re rule breakers. And so why not in your own life, whether you’re male or female, it doesn’t really matter. It’s like, oh, you have to be a big studio, or, oh, you have to only be a solopreneur. No, you can do it however you want. It’s your business.

Anjana Olson: Yeah. And isn’t that the very definition of creative?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.

Anjana Olson: That’s what’s so interesting me, to be in a creative career and to still feel like you have to fit into a certain box is just, that’s not true.

Allison Tyler Jones: No, and I think I was having a conversation with a friend the other night, and I was like, there are different personality types. I think there are people that really do like to say, “Okay, what’s a handbook and where’s a list of rules? And just tell me what I need to do. Give me the recipe for success and I’ll do it.” And then the further you go, you realize it doesn’t actually exist. And then there are those of us who want no rules ever at any time, and then we’re floundering. So you kind of need, like, okay, here’s some guidelines of how it’s worked for other people, like you’d mentioned Greg and Lesa, but you’re doing maybe some of the principles of what they do, but you’re not doing the same work. You’re not trying to make yourself another Greg Daniel, which I love that.

Allison Tyler Jones: So it’s like we can all learn from each other and take pieces and cobble that together and find… You are a young mother who has children still at home, so I need my life to look like this right now. And then you’re going to evolve into an older mom, and then it’s going to be different. And you can change your business then, too.

Anjana Olson: Yes, and it will change. I’m sure of it. Even when we built this studio, one of the conversations my husband, Marty and I had were, what happens if this is no longer a studio? Because at heart I’m a creative, and that can mean a lot of things. And so we made sure that this studio can become a living space. It can be something else. It can evolve because I am fully aware that I will evolve. And that’s a beautiful thing. And I think when you’re starting out as a photographer, it is impossible to not on some realm want to be someone else because you’re looking at yourself and you’re comparing yourself to these people who are further along in their evolution as an artist, and you just want to skip all the steps and be there.

Anjana Olson: But there is so much beauty in that gap between your lived and unlived life. There’s so much growth, not as a business owner, maybe a little bit in that, but I think even more in your character and in how you relate to other humans and how you define what you want to be in that world.

Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely. And I think if you try to skip it and go to the copy, you are just a derivative shell because it never has the rich tapestry of all those failed experiments and becoming who you truly are.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And there was so much failure in that journey. It’s been, what, 14 years? I’ve had clients that have told me, “You’re crazy. Your pricing is way too much,” after a session. And I’ve just been… I have no idea how to respond because I was younger.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s always fun.

Anjana Olson: And you will have moments of panic. You will have moments of, “Oh my gosh, I botched that entirely.” You will have moments where your lights don’t work or something happens. And all of those moments, you don’t want to have them, but you have them. And then you realize you have solutions and you will learn how to navigate all of those things. And eventually, you’re 14 years in and you’re over here like, “Oh gosh, who cares if it doesn’t work?”

Allison Tyler Jones: You have the confidence of knowing that you’ll get something out of it.

Anjana Olson: Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: And in fact, sometimes those are the things where you get the breakthroughs or whatever. So back to pricing for a second. So can you give me an example maybe how pricing in the beginning that you had to make a course correction and change it, other than just raising prices? Was there anything with your session fee, was there anything with your product line, were there any big changes that you felt like really made a difference for you that helped you have a more sustainable, profitable business doing only four to five sessions a month?

Anjana Olson: Yeah. The hugest thing for me in the past two years has been eliminating my smaller portraits.

Allison Tyler Jones: Say more.

Anjana Olson: I’m not a grouping girl. Yes, I have legacy clients that replace portraits, and that’s something that we do on a custom basis, and it’s a little different, but I realized that my resentment… I do have a feeling of resentment when a client buys an 11 by 14. It’s so small in my brain and it’s not fun to install, and I like big things. So making the price of the 11 by 14 a price where people are going to be like, “Well, I might as well just get something bigger. Why spend that much on 11 by 14?” Having a portrait order minimum off the bat so that people understand that I’m not in the game of digital images.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. So say more about that.

Anjana Olson: So I originally would have… I had digital images available for purchase for $200 an image. What I failed to realize was that then yes, you will have a digital client that will potentially buy, what? Five digital images for $200 a piece. Is that terrible? No. Did that bring me any satisfaction?

Allison Tyler Jones: Or joy?

Anjana Olson: No joy, no satisfaction. Did it help me reach my sales minimum? Absolutely not.

Allison Tyler Jones: No. And for me, just even hearing you say that, my soul is withering inside my chest because not for me and not for you, but for the client. But you spent a thousand dollars and you have literally nothing. Something that you can scroll on your phone, nothing.

Anjana Olson: And at this point, I’m like, I’ll have a client that’ll spend $5,000 on a 36 inch or something like that, and then they’ll say, “Oh, but I wish I really had… This image is not something I want to print, but I would love a digital.” And I’m like, “You know what? Take it.” Because that leads to you potentially buying another portrait at some point.

Anjana Olson: If I have clients that are spending what I want them to spend, the digital means nothing to me. And if you’re not here for the digital, then you are my client and the love. You’re right, the joy. Man, just installing that art on their wall, my heart beats faster, and I enjoy that… I have a genuine joy in putting art on people’s walls.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, especially with your education. If you’ve got a bachelor of fine arts and you are an illustrator, that’s not a digital process.

Anjana Olson: No.

Allison Tyler Jones: Charcoal. I guess you could do it with a brush and Photoshop, but it’s not the same. That’s so tactile. That’s so 2D. That’s so a finished product.

Anjana Olson: Yeah, I love a little mess. And even framing gives me a little bit of that mess. Just having all the supplies out and doing all that, it just feels as though I have used my hands to create something, and that’s a beautiful feeling.

Allison Tyler Jones: The ability. I think until you have that first really large print that arrives from the lab or off your printer or whatever, however you do it, that is a spiritual experience.

Anjana Olson: Gosh.

Allison Tyler Jones: It’s like you could have been doing digital files forever, but once you really print an image that you’re proud of, and it’s large, it changes the work. It’s the size and what it’s printed on and how it’s framed, everything. That’s all part of it. To me, I feel like it’s not that the digital files are wrong, it’s just that it’s three quarters of the work is undone.

Anjana Olson: Yeah. Yes. And it always feels… I love fashion. And there’s something about the finishing touches. When you get dressed and you’re wearing, I don’t know, a white t-shirt and jeans, and then you throw on a little blazer, and then you’re like, “Ooh, but I could put on these hot pink earrings and it would match my lipstick.” And then you have the hot pink heels and you’re slowly pulling together, and then all of a sudden you have a look. It’s no longer just a white t-shirt and jeans. And that’s how framing and art feels to me. It’s like the digital file is just this. You’re just hanging out in sweatpants, and then you get to like, “Oh, I’m going to a red carpet event to the nines.” And I want people to see themselves that way. I want you to walk through your home and remember that you are art. You as a human being art. Your family is, “Man, look at that picture,” and just revel in the gift of, “They’re mine and they are art.” That is just oh.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and that’s a mother’s perspective right there too.

Anjana Olson: Right. You’re right.

Allison Tyler Jones: I think uniquely a mother, because you literally have created these beings. You have carried them in your body or adopted them or whatever. You’ve created this family, and then how much you’re putting into that child to get them, basically keep them alive every day, but then raise them into halfway decent human being. It takes nothing less than everything. And then to celebrate that in any way less than some beautiful piece of art for your wall is… It is just not the done thing.

Anjana Olson: No. And when they’re screaming and you are losing your mind, because I mean, there are times I have been crying and the kids have just been like, “Are you okay?” And I’m like, “Yep. I’m frustrated. Just like you guys get frustrated sometimes.” But then I’m drinking a cup of coffee and I’m seeing their cherub faces on my wall. You can’t help but… Your body calms, and there is an emotional reaction to seeing portraits on the wall. And the kids get to see themselves now. They see themselves and they’re thinking, “Oh my gosh, you love me so much that you made artwork out of me.” That is the ultimate like, “Dude. Don’t ever ask me if I love you.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Totally. Well, and also seeing… Especially with family portraiture, I feel like it’s also putting them in a context to where they realize that yes, you’re loved, but also there are other people in this house to straighten up.

Anjana Olson: Oh, gosh, that’s a great reminder.

Allison Tyler Jones: It’s all of us. And everybody has a voice rather than just the… Like great, I’ll do an iconic picture of you as well, but it’s all of us together.

Anjana Olson: Yeah, and I think framing it that way for clients, when you’re thinking… When you’re looking at investment level from a client’s perspective, these portraits are on your walls for years. It’s a similar investment to a couch, to a beautiful piece in your home. And obviously I’m like, “That’s more important than a couch, but that’s mainly because my couch is covered with who knows what.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, you’re firmly in the ages of we can’t have nice things.

Anjana Olson: No. Yes. Which is why my studio is me having nice things.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, totally. Yeah. At your age of kids, my studio was way nicer than my house, for sure.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And I look at these portraits and I’m like, invest in them as though you would invest in other pieces in your home. How much should you pay for your TV?

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. It’s going to be outdated. It’s outdated by the time you buy it. It’s old technology by the time it gets put into the box in the factory. Yeah.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And so I have lost my… I don’t know when it happened, but I completely lost any care for if a client says something like, “Well, that’s really expensive.” I’m like, “Sure.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.

Anjana Olson: I’m going to let you sit with that-

Allison Tyler Jones: It is.

Anjana Olson: … and then if that… Because I’ve plenty of clients that will say that, and then you just sit. You don’t say a word. And then they’re like, “Okay,” it takes a minute.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, I love that you said that because yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So much yes. And that’s a big question I get when I’m teaching is like, well, what do you do when somebody just says, “Man, that’s so expensive.” I just say, “I agree with them.”

Anjana Olson: Yeah. It is.

Allison Tyler Jones: It is. It is expensive and you can make the case, “Well, it’s forever. It’s legacy. It’s not as expensive as other things,” but I’m not the one that has to make that value. And when people are saying that, what do you think? When somebody says that, how are you interpreting? How is that landing for you when a client says to you, “Wow, that’s expensive.” What is going on in your head when you hear that?

Anjana Olson: I’m going to give two things. I’m going to talk about what it felt like when was not as comfortable with it because I think that’s important. That was scary to me. That was me hearing, “You’re not good enough. I don’t value what you… Convince me. Tell me why I should spend that-”

Allison Tyler Jones: You sack. How dare you? I’m going to go on Yelp and tell everybody what a fraud you are.

Anjana Olson: Yep. I heard all of the things that I maybe thought about myself or that maybe were in the back of my head because I was not confident in what I was doing as of yet. And that’s okay. That is okay to feel those feelings. The thing that helped a lot with that is simply… And I’m a learner. I like to learn. I like to read. But for me, it was read, read, read, read, read as much as possible about sales, about value, about high-end brands, everything that would give me the confidence to be who I am, because I wasn’t there yet.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.

Anjana Olson: So there was a lot of Sell or be Sold. There were portions of it that I was like, “Oh, this doesn’t align with what-”

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, no, he’s a total bro. But yeah, there’s some good stuff in there.

Anjana Olson: He is. So much that just gave me words when I didn’t have words.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes. And I also think… Don’t you feel like just the under… I want to call it the undercurrent of some of the things that you’ve said, is that when you realize, okay, I was sitting here with my four-year-old on my lap and we’re having this great time, and we’re reading a story, and I’m feeling just like this… And then tic tock, I got to go hit a session. Or let’s say that it’s not so idyllic. They’re all melting down, they’re feral, they’re hungry, and you got to go do a session. So you’re abandoning the thing that’s at the core. And then you realize, “Okay, it’s $350. That’s all I’m going to get, and I’ve just spent all this time, and now I’m going to come home and ignore them for another eight hours while I retouch it all and then ignore them again while I go…”

Allison Tyler Jones: It’s just like you do get to a point where you’re like, “Okay, no, and here’s the appropriate pricing.” And so then when somebody comes at you with like, “This is expensive,” it gives you a little bit of bulletproofness on that where you’re just like, “Well, I’m not willing to do it for any less.” So there’s that part. But then I think even next level of that is just making that mind shift of it actually is a lot, and it’s actually worth that. And realizing that they actually aren’t saying that you’re not worth it. They’re just going, “Wow, that was more than I thought,” and then let them justify it. You don’t have to.

Anjana Olson: No. And silence is so powerful. It is just sitting in… The first time… This year, I have panic every time I hand an invoice over. I had a family that decided they wanted so many things, and I’m not a person… I like to walk through the studio and say, “Tell me what you love. Tell me why you love it. Let’s order that way.” Yes, they know approximately what they might spend, but this was a big one. And I had to mentally tell myself, “You will not apologize. You will not defend. You will simply tell them the number and sit,” and the minute the response was, “Great. Would you like that in check or would you like a card?” And that was it. And the amount of sweat that was on my body is not okay.

Allison Tyler Jones: But it’s real. That’s real.

Anjana Olson: Yes. It was so scary. And before I said that number out loud, I had an inkling of maybe I should give them 15% off. They’ve spent so much. It’s okay. And then I was like, “Nope. This is a good lesson. See what happens.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, because where else in your life… So if we’re in a car dealership or buying that sofa or buying that TV, and we’re standing there, I’m sure you’ve said it. I’ve said it, “Geez, that’s a lot.” Now we’re standing there, we want the TV. We’re complaining about how much it’s costing, but really what that is how am I going to afford this? And I’m going through in my mental mind of like, “Okay, we got to move money from here. We’ve got a little bit on a credit card here. We can sell that.” So it has nothing to do… I’m not standing there thinking, “How am I going to get this TV salesman to give me 15% off?”

Anjana Olson: You’re right.

Allison Tyler Jones: Some people do that. Some people are like that, but most people aren’t. Most people are just trying to figure out how they can get what they want. And that’s what your client is saying to you. They want what you have. They want what you have done for them. They’re just like, it’s mental coming out of the verbal. Wow, this is more than I thought. How am I going to do it? But if we dig in and start going, “Well,” and apologizing… What did you just say? I’m not going to justify. I’m not going to apologize. I’m not going to discount. Defend. Yes. Then immediately… So let’s just go back to TV.

Allison Tyler Jones: Wow, that’s a lot. The guy starts going, “Well, I mean, I know, but there’s tariffs and there’s that.” So right then now we’re in a negotiation. Whereas if he just said, “Yeah, I know. They’re amazing, aren’t they awesome? These frame TVs with the matte finish, no glare. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Super expensive, but great. Amazing.” It’s a completely different way of responding. Completely different. It changes the tone of everything. And when you have that just like, “Yeah, this is what it is,” and once they buy it, you are now forever changed.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And every little bit of those moments gives you more and more confidence, which is why it’s important to have both the bad experiences and the experiences, because you have to balance out how you respond to both of those things. It’s interesting that usually when something is discounted, for me, it devalues it. I have read so many books about it, and it’s true. I love, love shopping, and weirdly, when something is on sale, I think I can buy two of this, or I can just buy the one thing I really wanted. And there’s a thought in my head of why is it on sale? Is it out of season?

Allison Tyler Jones: It’s out of season. That’s your fashion brain right there. It must’ve been out of season or it didn’t sell well or not as valuable.

Anjana Olson: Yes. There’s an automatic negative connotation in my brain for discount. So if I am going to offer that, it has to be phrased in a way that is more, “Hey, thank you so much for being here, choosing me. I love what you’ve chosen. I would love to offer you this as a thank you,” so that it’s more of a gratitude than a, “Oh, yeah. It looks like you don’t want to spend that much. Let me go ahead and give you a discount on that.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I feel bad. I want you to have everything for nothing. Even if it means that I won’t put my children through college, it’s okay. My kids can be dumb. As long as you have the pictures.

Anjana Olson: So we’re either looking at grandpa paying for all that, or we need some more money. We’ll see what happens.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I have a feeling you’re totally going to get there. You’re going to do it. I love that. Well, such good mindset chefs. Anything else on that? Anything else on changes that you’ve made that were formative or that made a big difference?

Anjana Olson: Yeah. The only other change that really comes to mind is again, what’s showing what you want your clients to purchase and going through the studio and replacing all of the small portraits with huge portraits. Now, does that mean every client buys that? No, but it gives a reference. It gives a framework in their brain of, “This is what I could have. Do I like it? Do I want something smaller?” And even the sales of going to get something smaller and saying, “Oh, I don’t have that on my wall. Let me go get it.”

Anjana Olson: Now yes, I have clients that want smaller portraits, but when we talk through that, we talk about what does it look like on your wall space? How much wall space do you have? If you don’t have a studio that is okay. It’s okay to do that in someone’s home and help them walk through that. The biggest, biggest thing that I’ve noticed is it’s not just about being an expert in photography. It’s about showing your client that you are an expert in interior design. You are an expert in wall space. You’re an expert in how to install those portraits. Whether you are installing them or not, you can have knowledge on, hey, in a gallery space, this is how you hang a portrait and this is why. But pulling yourself into that space of I’m not just a photographer. I am all of these things, it gives your clients layer after layer of confidence in what you are selling. And I think that’s huge when you align that with pricing, because that’s what they’re looking for. They’re looking for value, and you have to provide that value how you can.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes. I think when we think of value, we think of our work being good enough. Value, what it’s printed on. Going back to your fashion analogy of you have all the accessories, you’ve got the frame and the printing. It’s beautifully printed, and it’s all of that value, expertise. What else do you feel like as you have raised your prices, that you have built in value? Obviously, have a beautiful studio that they can come to.

Anjana Olson: Yes. Yep. The studio is fantastic. That’s another thing where I’m like, you know what? I love the space I’m in. That will not hold you back.

Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.

Anjana Olson: We were in a barn before this, and my sales were… I had sales that were higher than some of the sales I have now. But I think there’s value in all of the things that go into what you are creating. So if you want to create… It’s again about going backwards. If you want to create this flagstone product and you want it to look like an art piece, what are all the things that go into that? Color harmony, styling, making sure you’re helping your clients with clothing. And again, if that is not your expertise, either learn it and help as much as you can or find someone who can. Figure out what your client’s stress points are because it is never about one thing. It is never just your product. It is never just you.

Anjana Olson: And going back to what you were saying where putting a family portrait on the wall, like it’s not only about that child. This business is not about you. And the minute you figure out it doesn’t matter how good you are, honestly, you can be a terrible photographer and have amazing sales because it is about how your client sees you and what you provide for your client and that relationship.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, and how you’re solving their problems.

Anjana Olson: Yes. How you’re solving their problems. So if you have a bad experience, write down all of those and see it as a learning opportunity. Where did I drop the ball and how can I be better about that? But pricing is this little bit… And then all the things that go around it support you being able to have that price and to be able to live your life the way you want to live it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yep. I love that.

Anjana Olson: Ultimately, the end goal is joy and contentment.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, and I think going back to the idea of the businesses that we love, vendors or businesses that we frequent. For you fashion girl, it could be a clothing boutique or a little independent bookstore, just some kind of business that you just love and you think about if that was not there, how much poorer your life would be. You want to see those emails coming through. You want to patronize that business. You want to refer and support and love on that person, and you want them in business because you have a relationship and they are either making you look good or solving your problems or whatever. And if you’re that kind of business, you’re going to be in it for the long haul and it’s layers of value.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And it’ll make you feel good about your business.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.

Anjana Olson: It’s never been about money for me in this business. Obviously, it’s been about profit. I’m not going to have my business will be successful. That was a non-negotiable. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a second income. It doesn’t matter if… You don’t have to have a reason for wanting a successful business. And I’m saying that only because I think as a woman and as a mom and a wife, I’ve heard a lot of, “But why do you need to do that? Your husband has a job.” And I’m like, “Why are you asking me that question? Would you ask my husband that question?” And the typical, “Well, where are your kids right now?” And you’re like, “Well, there’s another person in this family, another adult, to take care of them.”

Allison Tyler Jones: I know. You’re like, sexism is alive and well still in 2025. Yes.

Anjana Olson: Yup. And it’s just one of those where there’s a value that you see in yourself. There’s a confidence that you get in yourself when you do things and you succeed. It’s just is, and the way my kids see me. I love the way my kids see me because my oldest is always like, “Mom, are you famous?” And I’m like, “Absolutely not.” And he’s like, “Yeah, but you were in that magazine.” I’m like, “Dude, there are a lot of people in that magazine.” Or he sees me going to PPA for a board meeting. He’s like, “Oh my gosh.” His viewpoint of me is just… It makes me smile.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s so cute.

Anjana Olson: And I love that there’s someone that in my life that sees me that way just because it is so cute. But take a minute and see yourself that way. Celebrate the small wins. It doesn’t have to be a $13,000 sale, because those might be few and far between. That is not my norm. Celebrate any sale. Celebrate changing your mindset. Celebrate you did something that was scary and you survived. Take a few risks. Celebrate everything you can in the business because you’re doing great things, and it doesn’t matter how small they are. You’re making changes. You’re evolving just like all of us are. And I think it’s important as a photographer to know that where you are is not where you will be.

Allison Tyler Jones: For sure. It makes me think… I just wrote on the piece of paper as you were talking, that you can have all these layers of value of things that you talk about, but if you don’t have the bedrock that you value it. Like you said in the beginning, when we very first started talking, you were like, “Okay, I don’t think that there’s necessarily anything wrong with selling digital files, but everybody was telling me that the only way to make money was to do wall art.” And that wasn’t landing for you because it was just something that everybody was telling you.

Allison Tyler Jones: But then once you evolved to go, pulling in your BFA, pulling in what you really love, it was so it wasn’t just because somebody told you wall art because you realized, I really do love wall art, and you value that, and then you value styling your clients, and you value color harmony and you value… And all of that makes that little cocktail or that little recipe of Anj Portraiture, your business. And here you are, but the foundation is that you value it.

Anjana Olson: Yes. And that’s a great exercise for a photographer or any creative to sit down and just make a list of what do you value, what do you love? How do you pull those things into your business, and what do you… Take out what you hate. I know that everyone says that, but anything I don’t like to sell has just left because I’m not going to say-

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Down to even what you’re shooting like a genre. Even if you don’t get rid of it immediately, figure out a way to replace the income that’s coming from it, like hello weddings.

Anjana Olson: Oh, gosh. Thank you. Oh, oh my God. I hope nobody saw the face I made.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Nope, because we’re not using the video. Only audio. Yeah, I love it.

Anjana Olson: Yeah. That has never been… And then looking at, I love children, family, newborn, but I would have to say that at this phase of life, I’m mainly photographing children and family. Newborns have slowly left just because-

Allison Tyler Jones: Your clients have grown up.

Anjana Olson: Yes. Clients have grown up. A lot of the newborn inquiries I get, they love my styling and my set design, but it’s still digital images. And I’m like, “I’m so sorry. I don’t want to do that,” and I’m okay with that. But there is something so beautiful when you get the clients that say yes without any question. I think that is something that as you niche down or as you take out what you don’t want to do and stick to what you do, you end up getting… It’s like a little little glow up. Every time someone says yes. You’re like, “Oh.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, you’re just sending out the bat signal for those people. So instead of people calling around for a photographer, they’re calling to see if they can afford you.

Anjana Olson: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s the difference. Rather than, “I’m calling around. We want to do family portraits. How does it work for you?” No, no, no. It’s like, “Okay, I love your sets. I love the thing that you did on the green for that one family, and da, da, da, da.” And so you realize, “Oh wait, they want me, and they’re just trying to find out if they can afford me, rather than trying to see five photographers and see who’s the cheapest.” That’s a completely different way of engaging with the public and much more soul satisfying.

Anjana Olson: Yes, absolutely. Just the other day, I got a notification on Google. It said that someone has taken off one of the word descriptors, and apparently someone crossed out photography and replaced it with portrait artist. And I was like, “That is wild.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Interesting.

Anjana Olson: And I’m delving into it because I’m like, “What’s happening here?”

Allison Tyler Jones: They took it off from where? I don’t understand.

Anjana Olson: Apparently on Google, you have all these descriptors that you can put in, and I had put photography, photographer, all of these things. It’s like hashtagging and I have no idea what I’m doing.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, got it.

Anjana Olson: So I just put all that on there, and I’m sure someone like Kira is going to be like, “You know what? You just described that so totally wrong. That is not how that [inaudible 00:54:19]. You know what? Not dealing with it.”

Allison Tyler Jones: She has her own episode. Yeah. Okay.

Anjana Olson: Yes. Well, she better not mention this, but there was just a thing where someone had… I guess people can do things to it. I don’t know. This is the worst description. But it was just a notification saying, “This has been taken off of your description and has been replaced by portrait artist,” or something like that. And I was like, “I wonder if either maybe someone didn’t do it, and it was more of a…” Because Google Analytics could just be like, “Well, this no longer fits. You’re not that.”

Allison Tyler Jones: But that’s interesting as a thought exercise. Yeah.

Anjana Olson: Yes, it is. Or maybe I have tried to stop saying that, so my language is changing so that I can just another way to cut people off that don’t want what I’m doing, but I’m so curious about what that means. But words matter. Even me calling myself a portrait artist over and over again has solidified, “Oh, I’m a portrait artist.” It doesn’t sound as weird coming out of my mouth. And it changes the way I sell. It changes the way I interact with clients. It changes the way my shoulders lie, because I’m like, “Oh, portrait artists.” That’s shoulders back, stand up tall. You are this, and there’s something about just those exercises you do. Like writing down what you’re grateful for, writing down who you are, reminding yourself who you are. Books remind me of that all the time.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, yeah. Preach girl. Preach. Yes.

Anjana Olson: Yes. I’m currently reading the War of Art for the third time.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love it so much.

Anjana Olson: And it is, again, changing my mindset. It changes my mindset every single time.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I love Steven Pressfield. He’s so awesome.

Anjana Olson: Oh my gosh, he’s amazing.

Allison Tyler Jones: We’ll link to those books also in the show notes so that people can-

Anjana Olson: Oh, perfect.

Allison Tyler Jones: … get them. Yeah, for sure.

Anjana Olson: Yes. Oh, that is a huge one. Love it so much.

Allison Tyler Jones: Love it. Well, so many good things. Well, I love it. I feel like there’s so many… It’s very thought-provoking for me, and I know for our listeners. And as we wrap it up here, is there anything else that you feel like would be helpful for our listeners in helping them to value themselves more or communicate that value to their clients in a better way or anything?

Anjana Olson: Yeah, I think the main thing is realizing or understanding that there’s not a wrong way to do this, and there’s not a right way. There’s a way that works best for you, the way that works best for your season of life, who you are, and understanding that you can always change. And writing down your values now and creating a pricing structure and a studio that works for you in this moment is wonderful, and profit is important. You need to value yourself and understand that being paid for what you do will make you a better artist for your clients.

Anjana Olson: And that’s just from something active to do. Go backwards in your business, write your values, write how much time you want to be spending during your week, during your month, during your year, and go backwards and see what that means for you. How much do you want to make? You need to make? And factor in who you are as an individual. I am an introvert. I don’t actually do well with more than four sessions because my creativity declines. So if I do two to three sessions a week, that third session is not getting me. I don’t know what they’re getting, but it’s not great. Think about those things. What your personality is like, what your partner needs from you, what your children need from you, what your animals need from you, what you need from you, anything. And factor that in when you’re planning your business and make all the mistakes, you’ll be just fine.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Totally. Well, and I think how I would sum that up for you is just make your business work for you rather than the other way around. Rather than just feeling like my head is just in the plow day 365. It’s like, how can it be a thing of joy? And it won’t always be a thing of joy. Sometimes it is just hard work, but I think if you do it right, it’s more joyful than not, and attract clients that love you.

Anjana Olson: Yep.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Oh, say more about that. Ask people for help.

Anjana Olson: Or I shouldn’t even say ask, allow people to help you because they want to and don’t feel bad about it. I genuinely would not be where I am without the photographers that have helped me. Dan and Alex, I mentioned Greg, Kira. There’s Jeff Dachowski. There’s just so many people that have taken the time to sit down with me and say, “I suggest you change this and this is why.” And hearing that without thinking, “Oh my gosh, I’m a terrible photographer.” That’s not what it is. They see something in you. They are wanting you. They know you can be more. So take that help and ask for help and pay for help. If someone is offering a mentoring program, it is worth it. If it’s someone that you see their business and you’re like, “Yes, I want aspects of that,” those relationships are huge, and it will always be more mentors. I can never say enough about mentors, man.

Allison Tyler Jones: So true.

Anjana Olson: Life changing on so many levels. So accept the help. Ask for help and be humble. You don’t know everything. You never will. I’m not going to know everything, so just take the time to ask for help and take it.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today. I think you’ve given me so much to think about and I really appreciate your insights, and I think your experiences are so relatable. I think we’ve all been there and are still there in cycle, right?

Anjana Olson: Yeah. Yep.

Allison Tyler Jones: So I really appreciate, and your work is just beautiful. It’s so fun to see all the things that you’re doing on Instagram. I think your social media feed is so awesome.

Anjana Olson: Oh, thank you so much.

Allison Tyler Jones: We’ll link to that too. I can tell that you put a lot of time and effort into that because it looks so effortless. I know it’s got to be super hard.

Anjana Olson: You know what? It is super hard, but also it gives me that sometimes with the boys, I’m like, “Oh, if I did an Instagram post right now, it’s work. So I can just slip into the studio real quick. I should need a 15-minute break.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, totally. Something that does not require peanut butter or-

Anjana Olson: Yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I love it.

Anjana Olson: Thank you so much. This was lovely and this conversation, the back and forth and all that has given me so much to think about also, and I love that. Again, is something about relationship and conversation and how that can shift your journey or what you’re thinking or give you new things, new avenues to pursue.

Allison Tyler Jones: Photographers are just the best people.

Anjana Olson: They are. I agree.

Allison Tyler Jones: We’re awesome.

Anjana Olson: Yeah, we are. Don’t ever forget it.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s right. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

Anjana Olson: Thank you.

Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com and on Instagram at do.the.rework.