Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand profitably price and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art, and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little ReWork. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini-workshops and behind-the-scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do The ReWork.
Allison Tyler Jones: Hi friends, and welcome back to The ReWork. I am so excited for this episode because not only do we have Drake Busath from Busath Photography in Salt Lake City, Utah, but we have Drake’s portrait designer, also known as his salesperson, Linda Smoot, who joins us for this episode to discuss all things sales, all things client experience, all things changing the selling environment to make your clients feel more comfortable, building trust, sharing vision with your clients, and helping them see you as the expert. And just creating the ideal circumstances for building long-term relationships that build long-term successful businesses. So I can’t wait for this. You are definitely going to want to take notes, so get your pen and paper and let’s do it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, we have an extra special treat today because not only do we have my brother from another mother, Drake Busath, in the podcast studio we have his star sales associate portrait designer, Linda Smoot at Busath Portrait Photography, who is a star saleswoman, a stellar human being, and I had the good fortune to meet her last year when they came down to visit. So we’re going to do all sales today with Drake and Linda. So welcome both of you for being… Thank you for being here.
Drake Busath: Happy to be here.
Linda Smoot: We’re excited.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so Drake, let’s talk first about most of our listeners, I would guess are probably solo printers, maybe have one employee. You were, are and have other photographers, but what made you decide to hire a salesperson?
Drake Busath: It’s always been that way for me. I grew up in a studio that my parents established, so my father was the photographer and never either wanted to do the sales or was capable of it, and I think I inherited that from him, the desire not to do it. So it’s been the norm at our studio to have someone helping in that department, either a spouse or an employee. And the last 10 years or so, though, we’ve, in fact really more than that, 15, we’ve really dependent heavily on a portrait designer or consultant. The title has changed over the years, but now we’re saying portrait designer.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. I think that’s a great title.
Drake Busath: Yeah, and so for me, just my personality, I’m a little bit less comfortable in that confrontational sales situation. I just want to be the nice guy and do people favors and make great images, and then hand it off to somebody else.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right and that’s legit. I remember when I first started, a good friend of mine just said, “You can’t sell your own work. That’s way too hard. You’re way too close to it. And it’s like selling your children. It’s so hard.” So Linda, how do you see your job? In your mind what is your job at Busath? What’s your prime directive?
Linda Smoot: Well, yeah, that’s a great question because I mean, the sales is an integral part of the whole process. But I think that my role is just really to guide my clients through the entire process, start to finish, make it a fabulous experience. But by consulting with them prior to their session and then meeting post session, guiding them through that whole process gives them a continuity to the process, helps them to feel that it’s customized to them. It’s a very personal experience. And they like having somebody right there at every step of the way they need, that really has their back and is their advocate, but knows what they’re talking about and can help them design, and make sure that they are getting exactly what they need and what they want.
Allison Tyler Jones: And so are you communicating to the photographers at all as far as what you want them to create so that you know… How does that work? If a client’s coming in and saying, “Okay, we want to do this multi-gen family portrait,” are you communicating to the photographers what that is and how does that work?
Linda Smoot: Well, absolutely. That’s crucial, right? Because we’re trying to save our photographers from being overworked, taking the portraits that the people are desiring and wanting. I’m consulting with my clients first and foremost to determine what their objective is, and then in turn, communicating with the photographer exactly what that looks like so that the client gets what they want and they’re happy and the photographer is happy because they didn’t shoot a bunch of session extras that weren’t needed in that case, if that makes sense.
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, for sure. And have you ever had it go wrong? Have you ever had a situation where you’ve gone into a sales appointment, and you realized they captured way more stuff than what the client wanted or I mean, has that ever happened?
Linda Smoot: Oh, certainly. And that’s discouraging. And oftentimes we can turn that around and say, “This is an amazing session. This is an opportunity to really turn this into a great album sale and more portraits maybe than you initially thought you wanted, but wow, you don’t want to turn these images away. This is a great session.” So I think it can be a real positive, but certainly burnout for photographers when they shoot more than needed. It’s a delicate balance, I think, but certainly the photographers deserve to know beforehand what they’re walking into, so that it can be successful for them as well.
Allison Tyler Jones: I am so excited about this conversation because I think having this separated, even for me because I shoot, but I also do all of my own sales. So to have this separate person, I’m listening to you, Linda, ’cause you’re half of me, and Drake’s the other half of me realizing like, oh. Just even the mental exercise, even if you never hire anybody else to do your sales, to listen to Linda talk about, “I don’t want to burn the photographer out.” What if we thought about it that way? What if I thought, I don’t want to burn myself out. I want to keep my creativity clear so that I show up with each session totally on task, totally excited, max creativity, right?
Allison Tyler Jones: ‘Cause I want to do my best every single session, but if I’m overshooting shooting things that clients don’t want, not only am I burning myself out, but then I’m making my salesperson hat… Now I put on my salesperson hat. Yes, you can try to sell those other images, but sometimes clients feel overwhelmed by it, or they feel like you’re trying to kind of trick them by you shot too many things. Or they don’t buy them and then Drake comes in and says, “Oh, what about the one with the dad and the kids? Did they just love that one?” “Yeah, no, they didn’t buy that one.” “Oh, that killed me to pose that. Took me an hour to pose that picture.” Whatever.
Linda Smoot: Right.
Drake Busath: That communication that you mentioned between Linda and the photographer is critical. One thing you were asking Allison is how does she communicate that to us as the photographers? Linda has a form that we’ve created with, it’s a consultation forum and that has all those answers, the style and the clothing and everything else, and their expectations. The photographer can read that and I think get a pretty great idea. I worried about that in the past. Wouldn’t it be better if the photographer had firsthand knowledge about the client’s expectations?
Drake Busath: But we’ve always had this operated on a higher volume, and that’s the choice of the photographer, what kind of business model you want, but we’ve always done that. It’s where the photographers are busy every day. They’re shooting and editing, and so trying to do a consultation was really challenging. It was impossible for us. We tried and tried to do that, but Linda doing a careful, carefully written consultation form and handing that off, I think gives 80 90% of that information to the photographer. Enough so there’s a continuity there. And the client, you don’t want the client to feel like they explained all this and then it didn’t get communicated.
Drake Busath: So the photographer has to make a point of, “Here, I’ve got the consultation form here, let’s go over it before the session.” So that continuity is there I think.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s so good. Linda, when you were here in the fall, we had such a good time. It was so fun to meet you and spend time together. You went away and made some changes and had a really cool experience with a client. Do you mind sharing that with us about how you nailed down that product and got the deposit and all that? Do you mind sharing that experience?
Linda Smoot: Oh, no. I would love to. I want to come back. It was so inspiring and honestly, after meeting with you and just learning about your processes and trying to integrate some of those ideas into the way that I sell. So I met with the client whose singular purpose was just to get a large portrait. And seeing that it was a four-generation family and thinking in terms of this matriarch was organizing the portrait, but all these other family members needed to share in the experience of owning portraits convinced her, helped her to understand that this was an opportunity for her to gift each of her children and grandchildren with products as well from this session.
Linda Smoot: And so I was able to procure a large commitment from her in her consultation before the session was even shot. And she was so excited about gifting that she paid all of the deposits and the money upfront with the expectation that this was going to be a great experience, not only for her, but for her family and her grandkids to receive the portraits as well. And so I think the idea that I’d gleaned from you to sell the portraits upfront before the session actually takes place really took hold, because people want to know what to expect. They want to have an objective before they start this sell, and it made sense and it really worked well. So that was exciting for me.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. How would you have done it before then?
Linda Smoot: Sure. Well, before then, I wouldn’t have been trying to sell her any kind of portraits. I just would’ve met with her and said, “Yeah, we will arrange this session. We’ll shoot your family. We’ll make sure that we get this portrait that you want.” But I was able to capture more commitment from her beforehand, and she saw the vision and was able to really enjoy the process more I think too, and make it something that it was going to make other people happy as well as her. And I wouldn’t have done that beforehand, I don’t think.
Drake Busath: Let me add to that. I think we spent a lot of time talking about clothing, what to wear, how to treat the children, what time to arrive, where to get dressed. That was the consultation before-
Allison Tyler Jones: Right, everything was about how it was going to be shot, how it was going to look, and nothing about or not as much about what are you ending up with. And Linda I think the key word you just used there that I use all the time is vision, is that you are not trying to take this grandma and twist her arm and upsell her, right? You are simply saying, “Hey, you have a million kids. This is four generations. It is going to kill you to get this whole thing together. This is brain damage of the first order. You could get gifts out of this. This could be a whole different thing than just one image, or it can be just one image.”
Allison Tyler Jones: But if we can’t be the expert and paint the vision for them of “Look, not only could you get that big family picture out of it, but you could get individual portraits for each of your kids, and that covers all of your Christmas. You could do an album, you could do grandkids. There’s all of these things.” And at any point the client can say, “Okay, listen. I love that you have those ideas. I just want the big picture.” Amazing.
Allison Tyler Jones: Then we’re not over there shooting all the breakouts. Then poor Richard is not out there on the shoot with all of a sudden everybody dreams up an idea, “Hey, while we’re here, why don’t you just get these breakouts?” And it’s like, “Okay, well wait a minute. That’s not what grandma said.” And then he’s in a really weird position and he’s shooting for three hours and it’s horrible. And he never knows if anything’s going to come out of that. So, it’s just-
Drake Busath: And he threatens to quit.
Allison Tyler Jones: No, I know. And with good reason because like working them to the bone, right?
Drake Busath: That’s right.
Allison Tyler Jones: But we’d work ourselves to the bone. There are photographers all over listening to this that are like, “Yeah, I work myself to the bone because a client asks me to do it, and I’m standing there with my camera. What am I going to say? ‘No, I’m not going to shoot that.'” But you can say, “I would love to shoot that.” So will that live on the wall or is that going to go in an album? Because they’ll ask, but it’s like, actually, there’s no other job that works the way we work. You’re not going into an accountant or an attorney and going, “Hey, you know what? Let’s have you just do the tax returns for these three other businesses. Can you just do that real quick and just throw it in?”
Drake Busath: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: That never happens, but somehow we end up in that situation. So setting that vision ahead of time, I think Linda, genius, so good.
Linda Smoot: Well, yeah, thank you. I think envisioning and then creating with them together a design plan that’s going to fit their needs, makes them feel more a part of the process too. And so they don’t feel like you’re selling them. They feel like you’re their advocate. You’re on their side, and this is going to be an awesome project that we’re in this together and it’s a positive experience from the beginning, and that’s what we want.
Drake Busath: Can I add something to that?
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Drake Busath: At times, I have thought as the business owner that it was a lot to ask of the client to come in in-person before the session. Can we really ask that much of people? It turns out that it’s really such a value add to them, and we can say, “We’d like you to come in and you could meet with our senior portrait designer, Linda, on Friday, and that’s no extra charge. It’s included. It’s part of the process.” And they see that as a value add.
Drake Busath: And not only that, but in our case with meeting Linda, she’s a specialist. She’s not a generalist. She’s not the one that’s going to do the Photoshop work on it. She just does portrait design. She just is an interior designer that specializes in photographic portraits. So that’s even better in some ways than meeting with one of our photographers. She knows about framing, she knows the costs. She knows how she can package this to fit their needs. And so I can see how it’s even from the client’s point of view, better for them to meet with Linda than it would be to meet with me. I don’t think that’s-
Linda Smoot: For sure.
Drake Busath: … always the case, but in our case, if you’re a photographer like me that’s a little bit reticent to talk money or a little bit shy about meeting new people, maybe that’s the system for you. Bringing in someone like Linda that’s a specialist and really good at what she does.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, and I think too though, Linda, back me up what you think about this. Let’s just say that right now you’re calling in from Colorado. Let’s just say you got stuck in Colorado. An iron dome was placed over Salt Lake and you can’t get back. So Drake has to sell. Okay, so now this is for all the people that they can’t right now hire somebody. They have to sell, and they’re a shy guy and they don’t want to confront. I think there’s such value in realizing that you are not a used car salesman. You are not trying to sell people on things that they don’t want.
Allison Tyler Jones: And just like you said, Drake, where you said, I think we build up in our mind, “Oh, we can’t ask that of the client to come in,” when actually they want it. They want to talk about their kids. They are worried about what to wear. They want to look skinny in the picture. We need to know that you can help them make all of that happen, and then you can help them get what they want. So they have mouths, they can say, “No, I don’t want to spend that much money. Let’s out how to get it less.” That’s fine. Have that conversation before you shoot it, rather than after you’ve already shot it.
Allison Tyler Jones: And so you’re not having to be the tricky guy that’s like, “Hey, hey, hey if you buy this, I’ll give you that.” That’s just not, you’re never going to roll that way. But if you’re a shyer person and you don’t like confrontation, if you can just, I think make the mental switch that “I’m not selling as much as I’m helping people get what they really want.”
Drake Busath: Linda’s super good at that and presenting people those choices without pushing it all. And I think I could do that as well-
Allison Tyler Jones: But you don’t have to because you have Linda.
Drake Busath: I don’t have to, and it may be partly shyness, but it is partly laziness as well, I have to admit.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I love it. So hire somebody.
Drake Busath: And really the fact that we’re shooting a lot of sessions, and so to try to do a session or two in the day and then add a consultation that same day. I heard you mention Allison in the recent podcast that you dress differently for a session than a consultation.
Allison Tyler Jones: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Drake Busath: That’s a pretty cool thing. I hadn’t really heard that, but it’s certainly true for me. And then being in a different mental space too. Are you in a quiet kind of peaceful state where you can sit down and help people through their order? Or are you in this shooting mode where you’re moving equipment and setting up?
Drake Busath: We’re shooting outdoors. And that’s another great thing that Linda does is steer people to the style of session, because we have location sessions. We have our own outdoor gardens, which accounts for more than half of our work. And then we have studio space, which has different lighter tones and darker tones. And so she has to get all that information and describe those options for them because if she doesn’t, then the photographer gets… Not only do they want extra breakdowns, but they want to try some outdoors.
Drake Busath: It’s the wrong time of day. And how do you explain that? Or you got to go set up outdoor lighting. And that outdoor indoor thing is a complication for us during normal sessions. Our place is called Busath Studio and Gardens, and sometimes it’s assumed that they get both in the same session. And often we do, and as long as we plan it that’s okay. That kind of got off on a tangent there.
Allison Tyler Jones: No, but that’s good, but it’s setting the expectations. Okay, so let’s just say the dream. If you’re in your mind, Drake, and I actually want Linda to answer this too. What are the qualities of that ideal salesperson if they are not a photographer? What is the qualities of an ideal salesperson?
Drake Busath: Okay, well, let me take that one first and then Linda can add on to that. But first of all, she came as a client first, and so we photographed her. How many sessions did we do for your family, Linda, before you came to work?
Linda Smoot: I was a client for over 20 years before I came to work for you.
Drake Busath: Okay. So there’s-
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s amazing.
Drake Busath: … great qualification. She understood the process from the other side, from the client’s point of view, she’s not a photographer. And I say she, because I think a female is, I don’t know, better suited. Our clients typically are female, the decision makers. I think that’s an aspect of that designer job that’s helpful of a certain age. Do you mind if I say that, Linda?
Linda Smoot: Certainly not.
Drake Busath: But that person needs to have some credibility. And if you’re hiring an interior designer that’s 20 years old, you just don’t have the trust level. So getting somebody with some life experience. And then I think it’s super important that Linda doesn’t have young children at home, that she’s flexible schedule wise.
Allison Tyler Jones: But she’s a mom and she knows-
Drake Busath: She’s raised children.
Allison Tyler Jones: A mature mom. Oh my gosh, that’s such a superpower, a parent to be able just talk about those ages and stages.
Drake Busath: Yeah, absolutely. And then of course, personable. And-
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, yeah. She’s amazing.
Drake Busath: … that’s a given. And pretty right, Linda?
Allison Tyler Jones: He’s laying it on thick, Linda, he’s like, “This is in lieu of a raise.” You’re going to get a better title and he’s going to tell you how pretty you are, right?
Drake Busath: No-
Linda Smoot: Honestly, I don’t think I deserve any of this stuff, but I will say that I think some of the most important qualities are that you’re relevant and approachable, that your clients don’t feel like you’re way above their level or that you’re not going to be honest with them or be a good listener, and appreciate their perspective, where they’re coming from. I love the things that Drake said, and that’s really kind of you. But honestly, I think my biggest superpower is that I am a storyteller, and I want them to know that I want to help them tell their story.
Linda Smoot: And understand about their family, get to know them, get to know their children, get to know their passions. Their family is their greatest pride and joy, and that’s why they’re here. And we’re going to celebrate that. Whether it’s a wedding or it’s a 50th wedding anniversary or it’s a milestone with a child’s life, whatever that story is. Every client has a story that they want to tell, and my role is to guide them through that process, help them tell their story and make it one that they want to share with others through holiday cards.
Linda Smoot: They want to share their family with their friends. They want a lovely portrait hanging in their home so everyone that comes to visit sees the most important thing in their lives is hanging right there on that wall or an album to share with coworkers or family members. I just think that people are just so proud of their families, and they want to share them with everybody that they can. And when I validate that and it becomes such a positive experience, then we’ve accomplished what we’re there for. That’s to celebrate their families and show everyone that they can, who they love.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that because when you think of storyteller as photographers, I think Drake and I would be like, “Oh, well, yeah, we’re storytellers with your photography.” But you’re a storyteller in that you’re kind of like the producer of the story. Right? You’re the executive producer that’s saying, “Okay, we’re going to use a photographer and then we’re going to frame it this way and we’re going to do it this way.” And so really, you’re kind of that master producer of that family story, which is such a great concept that you think about yourself in that way, I think is so profound.
Drake Busath: And she sees the big picture. She’s not caught up in the weeds of the lighting and the equipment, and she can describe that big picture and kind of listen better to the clients perhaps.
Allison Tyler Jones: She does not worry about her next print competition.
Drake Busath: Oh, my. Linda, have you ever been to a print competition?
Linda Smoot: Never…
Drake Busath: Did you even know they existed?
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, because it’s not about her. And that’s what I’m always telling my students, this is not about you. If you’re making it about you, you’re never going to succeed. If it’s not about the client and like you said, their story, what they’re celebrating, whatever this moment is, and being able to get that out of them. Linda, what do you say to people, or maybe you don’t get people that say this, but do you get people that say, “Well, isn’t it really vain to put portraits of yourself on the wall?”
Linda Smoot: Oh, absolutely. But you know what? People love it deep down inside. Everybody loves to look pretty and beautiful, and that’s our job to make them look their best. So it doesn’t take much to break that away and say, “Oh, this is really going to be lovely in your home and it’s an heirloom. You are always going to treasure this.” And they always come around.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I know. I always think that’s such a funny thing. I’m like, “You do realize that you’re sitting in a portrait photographer’s office, right? That’s what we’re doing.” It’s just funny. I think that sometimes they just need permission.
Linda Smoot: For sure.
Drake Busath: Do you know in Linda’s voice though, is this deep belief in the value of the portrait, and that comes from being a client? We’ve had sales designers that were younger and didn’t have that experience, and they have to sort of fake it, talking to a young grandmother about what it’s like to have new grandchildren, and Linda just has this deep belief, she said. So I would say another list item to put on your want list is true believer. And you could gauge that if someone comes in that you don’t have experience with as a client, you can talk about their own experience and how much have they spent, how much energy have they spent on portraits of themselves and their families?
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and I think even with Linda, I could imagine her as a younger mom, even if she wasn’t a grandma or whatever. If you really listen to people and you elicit what’s important to them, you can reflect that back to them and you can make that happen. So whether you’re young or old, but I do kind of secretly love that we’re talking about being old is a superpower. I do totally love that because it’s true. I mean, if we haven’t completely lost our marbles, which that’s debatable, but really it’s such a superpower to have that experience and to have worked through all those stages with your own kids and seeing grandkids, and it’s such a… But yeah, I think storyteller and true believer in that product is excellent.
Drake Busath: Part of our culture at the studio is this true believer thing. And that comes back, stems from my dad too, who was a true artist and he never would’ve made it in business without my mother to run the business for him because all he cared about was the image and the lighting and the story it told. And I inherited a lot of that. But that’s part of the culture and that’s part of why our sustainability, I think, is people know that we care just so deeply about the finished look of this. And the reality, is it authentic? Is it a real story or we just don’t want to send anything out the door that looks artificial or fantastical or-
Allison Tyler Jones: Or really trendy I think.
Drake Busath: Or trendy yeah or pretend or over matchy-matchy or in the settings that aren’t believable. We’re not going to put somebody in a suit and tie in a dress out by a stream, because you don’t do that in real life. But I see it every day when I drive around to the popular portrait places and a sleeveless dress in the snow. Come on. So all those deeply held beliefs get communicated to the client, and Linda can do that because she understands all those nuances. So that’s a lot put on someone looking for help in the designer role, but those are aspirations at least.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and I think if you’re doing your own sales taking on that storyteller role beyond the photography, pulling out to that producer role at producing, what do we want them to end up with? And then also, the true believer. You might be a true believer in your photography, but are you a true believer that your clients should have this work of their family on the walls of their home? Are you a true believer of that? Because if you aren’t, you actually can’t sell it.
Drake Busath: Yes, exactly. And Linda has that built into her right from the start. And then she’s also been so, here we go, bragging about Linda again, I’m sorry, but she’s just been so willing to absorb that from me and she’ll listen. I’ll say, “I really want that corner darkened down a little bit.” “Why? Why is that important to you?” It’s important to me because I have this crazy 30, 40-year-old beliefs that are ingrained in me. And so I think as someone representing you as the designer really has to match your taste and if not match it, then learn it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, so Lin-
Drake Busath: And she’s been willing to do that. And I’ve had experiences where that was not the case. So maybe a designer who comes in and is great at chatting up clients, but can’t really understand my design sense. So somebody, maybe that would be another question to ask is look around or bring in tear sheets of photographs that you think are worthy of hanging on a wall or going in a client’s home. Let’s see if we match up. Because if you’re going to be pushing people toward sparkly trendy designs all the time, then you are not going to be a good match.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. If you’re the sparkly trendy photographer you don’t want somebody that’s classic.
Drake Busath: That’s super classical and traditional.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, for sure.
Drake Busath: Exactly. Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. So Linda, the 20 years that you had, you say photographing your family, having been on the client side, what made you decide to come and work with them? What did you love about that experience that kind of drew you to that?
Linda Smoot: Well, my passion to have memories of my family was what the driving force was. Early on when my children were just brand new, little right, even though Busath was on the higher end, I knew the quality and that was of paramount importance to me. Even if I couldn’t get huge prints at that time in life, it was more important to me to capture that moment in time with a timeless classic portrait that I knew that would never go out of style, and that I would be happy with. And I saw that early on as something that was extremely important to me, and that has never changed. That passion has only increased, and I’m able to share that with clients, and it’s easy to do when that’s how you feel deep down inside, right? You know that that’s really what matters to you, then it’s so easy to relate that to others and share that passion to them.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. That’s so good. And I mean, Drake, she’s really just like your ideal client, right? Because we have ideal clients. I think sometimes we get so caught up in thinking, okay, they’re the ones that spend the most, but the best clients are the true believers.
Allison Tyler Jones: So I was the best “client” of a photographer that’s no longer with us in our town. The first time I had him photograph my kids, I could only afford an 8X10, but there was no way I was going to let some hack photograph my perfect two-year-old. I mean there’s no way because she was perfection. And that had to be photographed only by the very best, even though all I could afford. And of course my mom came in and bought more things, thank goodness, and paid for things. But I think that’s such an important. Man, not only do you believe in portraiture, but you believe in the way Busath is doing it.
Drake Busath: Right. And then another aspect is believing that the pricing is fair. That’s a little tough. For someone coming in from the outside if they don’t have experience in our business, they might still have that in their back of their mind somewhere that “Geez this paper only costs 10 cents. How can we charge $2,000 for it?” And so you have to believe in the process too and the value of it. And it sounds like you did, you probably paid, for that 8X10 you probably paid three times what you could have paid somewhere else.
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, for sure. Because it would probably have cost me maybe $20 at some place that would give you a free 8X10 if you did a session or whatever. And I think it was like $250 for an 8X10, and I literally thought I was going to die, but I mean, I put all my money toward that and I still have it on my wall. The frame that it’s framed in was probably $1,200. The frame is way more expensive than what it is because it’s that valuable to me. But Linda, what you were saying is I knew they were on the high end, but I didn’t want something trendy. I wanted something that was going to stand the test of time. And then obviously you were committed to that final product too. You didn’t just want, I mean, they weren’t doing probably digital files way back when, but you wanted the finished product.
Linda Smoot: Absolutely. And it’s a perceived value, right? When we have customers come in, if they feel like it’s on the high end, how do we change their perception and help them understand that it really is a value, what they’re getting? The whole-
Allison Tyler Jones: It’s worth it. Yeah, because you’re not going to change the price.
Linda Smoot: Absolutely.
Drake Busath: One thing that we hadn’t talked about that you just sparked a thought, that perceived value is this setting that this is done in. I loved seeing your setting, Allison, your new studio and the room that you use, and Linda and I are both just looking at every detail. Where do you hang things? What size, what’s your desk like, where’s the monitor in relation to the chairs, what kind of chairs? And we just did recently last year, we just tore apart that presentation, that room that Linda was working-
Linda Smoot: Did you really?
Drake Busath: … and redid it. So maybe Linda could describe those details that work for her.
Allison Tyler Jones: I’d love to hear that.
Linda Smoot: So you’re interested in the thought process of the whole experience once they come into my room, correct?
Drake Busath: Yeah. What’s the perception-
Allison Tyler Jones: Of the sales room set up.
Drake Busath: … that they have? And I think people would want to know what’s the table? What’s the size? How close are you to the screen? What’s the screen size? Those kind of logistical things that you have designed in your room, and the little details that you’ve placed in there to make it feel homey and welcoming.
Linda Smoot: Sure. After we were so inspired by all of the little details and how much thought probably went into every detail in your space, we came back and repositioned a large screen, round table, swivel chairs so that I could swivel to meet the client face-to-face. I am sitting right next to them at the table. I’ve got plants, lots of natural sunlight, great samples on my walls, but just little details that I felt would make people feel homey when they came in. And also just really spending that personal time with them is I think important, to make them feel like you’re not going to be in and out and get sold and onto the next client. But I, in that space where they feel welcome into my space, they’re becoming friends. I mean, I feel a lot of times when my clients leave, I’ll give them a hug and say, “I feel like we’re friends,” because-
Allison Tyler Jones: Totally.
Linda Smoot: … we’ve gotten to know each other.
Allison Tyler Jones: So true.
Linda Smoot: Spent that time, and I mean, I’ve got jars of, I was inspired by your candy. I got jars of chocolate and bottles of water. So when they came in, they just wanted to relax and hang out and sit and chat and have treats, and it’s completely turned the experience around to a more relaxed, authentic experience versus, “Oh no, I’m going to go in and they’re going to try to sell me all these things.” It doesn’t feel like that anymore.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. Well, and it probably didn’t feel that way before. I mean because you are such a welcoming person, but I do think the actual physical environment makes a huge difference.
Drake Busath: Yeah, I do too. I like the glass door. It’s a full glass door leading into Linda’s room, so that clients walking in and out of the building see that process going on in there, and it’s not closed up. When you close that door, you’re not locked in.
Allison Tyler Jones: Somebody’s got a bare light bulb and a hose.
Drake Busath: No escape…
Allison Tyler Jones: A drain in the floor.
Drake Busath: On the other side-
Allison Tyler Jones: We’re going to waterboard these people.
Drake Busath: Exactly. They’re French doors out to the garden. And Linda, we had to put blinds on there to pull them down so the screen didn’t get…
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Drake Busath: At certain times of day.
Allison Tyler Jones: Sure.
Drake Busath: So you pull the blinds down, but otherwise it’s open to the garden. So there’s this sort of a home feeling there that’s comfortable. We’ve had different rooms at different times around the building, and one was, initially it was the largest room we could get, so we could have sit people on a sofa and look at a big projected screen.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I hate that.
Drake Busath: We got away from that.
Allison Tyler Jones: I hate the sofa. I hate it.
Drake Busath: So now we’re back to swivel chairs around a round table, and fairly close to the monitor. Because another room, we were further back and people had to get up and walk and didn’t have to, but they sensed that they wanted to stand up and get close to that monitor and it’s like, what is it, a 70, 80 inch or something? It’s fairly large monitor, but they still needed to get their nose to it, and so just simply moving the table closer to it just eliminated that and we had to change-
Allison Tyler Jones: It’s little things. It’s just little things, isn’t it?
Drake Busath: We had to reorient the room to make that happen so the table could be centered, blah, blah, blah. But that was a key.
Linda Smoot: The round table makes you feel you’re all closer, so you’re all sitting down to dinner together it feels like almost, right?
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Linda Smoot: It lends to that a little bit more of feeling of closeness and proximity of my office to the front desk I think has been a real key too, because I have a pulse on what’s happening with everything that’s coming and going in the studio when I have a client that comes in to pick up their prints, I’m able to get up and go out and make a connection with them again, have a conversation, talk about how lovely the prints are. And it’s nice to have that connection and that close proximity, so that I’m aware really of what’s happening in the front half of the studio.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and I think up to the table, because I don’t have a round table, but I’ve got the desk with kind of a peninsula that comes up. So I’m directly across from my clients at a desk. Similar situation.
Drake Busath: Yeah, yeah central.
Allison Tyler Jones: I feel like what we’re doing is we’re working on a project together, so this isn’t a top down thing. To me I feel like when they’re sitting on the couch, and it’s this big projection and this big production, they’re leaning back super comfy and it’s like, “I’m on the hotspot, let me entertain you.” And then they’re kind of like, “Peel me a grape.” Well, that’s no way to be, right? We also don’t want them peeling us a grape. We want to be collaborative. So nobody’s more important than anybody else. We’re more egalitarian. It’s like, Linda, if you’re my client, you created this beautiful family. You created this beautiful children, this cool, whatever culture that you have in your family, like Drake says very often now we’re going to create the trophy.
Allison Tyler Jones: We’re going to create the celebration, the story of that family, and then I can help you do that. And so you have the unique family and I have the ability to tell the story, so nobody’s more important than anybody else, and we work together on that. And I think that’s such a better way to approach than being obsequious and kissing up to people or acting like, “Oh, I’m the auteur. I’m the really cool photographer and you should be kissing my feet.” I hate both of those things.
Drake Busath: If you say that, if you say, “I’m going to help you tell your story,” looking them in the eye, that is an entirely different thing than if you’re sitting behind them and you’re both looking at the screen.
Allison Tyler Jones: Collaborative is the way to go. Linda, what are your thoughts on that?
Linda Smoot: Oh, absolutely. We’re in this together. This is a project that I am invested in. We want this to be successful. And the approach right from the beginning is that I’m here as a trained professional that has the knowledge that you need, that you’ve come to me for a reason, and my role is to guide you through this entire process, start to finish. And so this is going to be a positive, amazing process, but I need your help and we’re going to work on this together, and it’s going to be exactly what you want, but I’m going to make sure that that happens. And being an authentic, honest, relevant person that can connect with somebody from the get-go gives them the assurance that they need, that this is going to be a really great experience. And then so many other things that have been concerns for them, cost or other issues, fall away. And they’re trusting me with all those little details because I know what’s going on. I’ve done this, I know the process. And you establish that trust early on and they love it and they’re confident, and it’s a great experience.
Allison Tyler Jones: If nobody takes anything else away from this episode, I want you to have some thoughts in your mind. And that is storyteller, you just said your role as an expert guide. Vision, helping the client see the vision and those with that, it’s building the trust. Because if you don’t have the trust, you have nothing. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter how good a photographer you are, it doesn’t matter how cool your studio is, none of that matters. If they do not trust you, you cannot do the job. It’s not possible. They won’t give themselves to the process in the session. They’re going to hold back from you. They’re not going to tell you what they really want to spend. You literally cannot do anything without trust. I think that’s just the core, for me anyway. If people don’t trust me, I don’t even want to photograph them because I can’t do my best work for you.
Drake Busath: So often all that will be left in their mind without that relationship and trust is “How much does this cost and why is it so much? And can I get the digital images?” I loved what Linda just said. Those issues fall away during this process. And so often, I’ve done so many sessions in my life without that where I’m trying to build that trust in five minutes before the session, and I’m pretty good at it being relatable, but that’s a heavy lift.
Drake Busath: If I had a half an hour, 40 minutes, then a lot of those issues would fall away, which is huge problem for when you’re trying to get what you’re worth, trying to get your prices to a livable wage I guess. That sense that it’s always about money. It’s always about price.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. And when I hear that complaint with students where they’re like, “Well, people just only care about money. The only thing that they care about is price.” That is absolutely not true. But if your clients are only caring about price, it’s they don’t trust you. So if you are getting price sensitive, price sensitive over and over and over again, first of all, there’s something wrong with your marketing and second of all, they don’t trust you. So you’ve got to figure out what message are you sending and then how are you building that trust? And I can’t even emphasize enough. It is not a trick.
Allison Tyler Jones: Linda, when you’re walking out of your office, and it’s the same with me, I’m not hugging somebody because it’s like, “Oh, well in Grant Cardone’s book in chapter five, it says, you should cement the sale by touching somebody.” No, I love them and I’m actually friends with them and we’re going to lunch. It’s a relationship. Yeah?
Linda Smoot: Oh, absolutely. I agree with that a hundred percent. But you want it to also be very authentic and true to who you are. We’re not putting on a show. This trust issue is huge, what you’re saying. And doing what you say you’re going to do. I mean, we’ve got to give them a reason to believe what we’re saying is the way it’s going to be. But people are pretty good at following their guts and their instincts. And I think when you begin this whole process with a really open, honest conversation and are approachable and want to answer any questions that they have, then it’s a good positive beginning. And then you can go from there with whatever concerns they have. But the trust issue is huge. Absolutely.
Drake Busath: Okay, but don’t you know, Allison don’t you know going to a convention that there are photographers who do a super good job with the camera, and cannot be relatable in that way and cannot build that kind of trust. And that’s the photographer that needs Linda on their team. I mean, sometimes if I think myself, what are my strengths? And if I’m really honest about it, one of my strengths is not being in the salesroom. Because I tend to give things away or not because I’m not relatable, but I know photographers, I won’t mention names, but to spend a half an hour, 40 minutes in a room with that guy, okay, I’m going to use a guy, but does not appeal to me as a client, right? Let him photograph me, but I don’t want to you know-
Allison Tyler Jones: I think you make a good point. And I think we all have to be self-aware enough to realize there’s some things that we’re good at and some things that we’re not. And they’re usually the things that we like to do. I could not get done with Photoshop fast enough. I don’t want to retouch. I don’t want to be in the computer doing that. I absolutely don’t love it. I don’t want to do it. I love the result of it. I can direct it, but I don’t want to do it.
Allison Tyler Jones: If you held a gun to my head and said, “You have to pick, you can shoot or you can be with clients, which one do you want to do?” It would be super, super hard, but I almost would fall down on the meeting with clients because that part of it, I can never give up because I love to see them see it for the first time. I love to see them see that, how great their family is. I don’t know. It would be really, really hard for me to give up shooting, but I don’t think I could give up the sales, so I should be doing the sales, right? But if you don’t love that and you hate it and you dread it, and every time you have to walk in the room, you’re like, “I would rather be doing anything but this,” probably you should have somebody doing your sales for you.
Drake Busath: Absolutely. If I had to choose with a gun to my head I would be-
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I already know what you’d choose.
Drake Busath: Do you?
Allison Tyler Jones: You’d be in Italy at your workshops.
Drake Busath: But I would still have a camera in my hand.
Linda Smoot: I’d have nothing to sell.
Drake Busath: You know what I love though? Honestly, we will talk about that later. But I do love greeting people in the parking lot. I love that part of it, either-
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, because you’re social.
Drake Busath: If I don’t have to talk about the money part, maybe.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Drake Busath: No, I mean I exaggerate, but I just love the role that I’m in right now, and I think everybody, all you young people out there photographing, I include you, Linda and Allison.
Allison Tyler Jones: Thank you.
Drake Busath: She’ll look forward to the day when you can just walk out and greet people in the parking lot, and they’ve just chosen their portraits or they’re just loading them into their car or they just had a session and they say, “Richard was just magical with our kids. You wouldn’t believe what he just pulled off.” Or, “Linda is just such a treasure. You are so lucky to have her.” So that’s what I would choose of course. You can’t make a living doing that, but that’s my role now. I’m going to hang out more in the parking lot.
Allison Tyler Jones: You’re basically the parking lot ambassador.
Drake Busath: I am ambassador and art director. I get to step in and with the photographers on the sessions and I get to scratch my chin a little bit and point here and there or help out. I think it adds value to sessions, so I’m not completely useless.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, a director.
Drake Busath: It’s a wonderful role, yeah. By the way, I think everybody using a designer or a portrait consultant like Linda should know that you still should step into the room. And we all do that, right, Linda? We-
Linda Smoot: Right.
Drake Busath: We step in and say, “Hi, how are you doing? How’s it going? What do you think? Have you chosen your favorites?” And because we talked about the continuity on the front end of the session, but you need that continuity at the back end as well. A couple of thoughts. One, if we indicate in our Lightroom edit, which are the photographer’s favorites, images, and I know Allison, you’ll have us narrow down that to one or two, and we might be five, but-
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s good.
Drake Busath: But we’ll have a favorite. And it’s got a red label on it. So Linda knows without even talking to the photographer, she can say, “Ooh, it looks like this is Drake’s favorite. And then why do we need to look any further? He’s looked at these carefully, and this is just his favorite. You need to see others to compare to the favorite. Okay, do comparison.” But we won’t put five up and say, “Which one do you like?”
Allison Tyler Jones: No, exactly.
Drake Busath: Because that just means there are four of them that are less good.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, you’re just making them do your job, basically. That’s how I see it.
Drake Busath: And they’re having to identify the worst pictures and get rid of like, “Oh, he did a bad job here. You did a bad job there. You did a bad… That one’s okay.” So they’re not focused on the good, but the bad. But mostly that idea of stepping in and that’s part of the parking lot experiences in the salesroom or the front room, the reception room, and staying in touch. Don’t you think, Linda, that that’s pretty crucial to the process, that it helps you in some way or does it? Or would you rather I stay out?
Linda Smoot: No, it absolutely is such an important part of the appointment, because they want the photographer to come back in and say, “Oh, you guys smashed it. This is amazing. Look at this picture. We captured exactly what we were going for.” And they right there. “Yeah, this is the one. We don’t need to talk about this anymore,” but can I just say too, the thing that makes my job easier than ever is that they do their job. They take spectacular portraits, they do an amazing job editing, and then I’ve got the best of the best to work with. So every portrait that I’m showing, every image is a winner really. And the clients just have an overwhelming amount of fabulous images to choose from. It’s so easy. It’s so easy for me because they do their jobs so well.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. It’s just a virtuous cycle and your front desk people are so nice. And I can just imagine when they come out that they’re confirming that positive experience and all the way through. Life is hard. Life is hard and it feels like everything is hard now. I don’t know why. You try to get your insurance, you try to buy a car. Anything that you try to do, build a house, everything seems like it’s just fraught and difficult. And to be able to go somewhere and have a service that is dialed, that somebody is listening to you and is making happen what you need to happen, where is that even happening in this world? I don’t know. Have you had an experience like that anywhere recently?
Drake Busath: No, I hear you. I think that’s super refreshing to people. And I see it. I see people’s reaction kind of reflecting that experience they’ve had. There was a family in last week that he’s the owner of the big camera store in town, and-
Allison Tyler Jones: I love him.
Drake Busath: Yes. From Pictureline.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love Jens. Yep.
Drake Busath: Little plug for Pictureline.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yep.
Drake Busath: Well-
Allison Tyler Jones: Best camera store in the world.
Drake Busath: In the world, yeah if you ask me or you or Jens. But anyway, so they’re in and they’re just standing in the reception room and there’s a fire in the fireplace and the family’s there together, which is rare. It’s hard. They’re an extended family with a few grandchildren, little ones. And one of the daughters just said to me, “This feels so good just to be here for this experience to be together.” And she was having an experience. And it was partly because the front desk people were kind, and it was partly because there’s a fire in the fireplace too, which is something you don’t get when you’re buying a car or building a house. Maybe it is. But anyway, little things. I’ve never been about serving refreshments or making a huge deal, but the chocolates that Linda learned from you, we learned from you. There are candies and anyway, I’m going on, but I-
Allison Tyler Jones: The Joneses aren’t going to let anybody starve. Let me just tell you that.
Drake Busath: I-
Allison Tyler Jones: Nobody is starving on my watch.
Drake Busath: I noticed that. Yeah. I got to peek into your kitchen. Absolutely stunning by the way your new house and offices. It’s just so inspired.
Allison Tyler Jones: Thank you. Well, that old building that is just so great. But I think it’s true. So for those that are listening that are like, “Well, I don’t have a fireplace in my studio,” or “I don’t have a studio,” there are ways to still give that experience to the clients. And I think we could probably, between the three of us even come up with some of those ideas. When I shot on location, I would take Ring Pops or whatever and pack them into my camera bag, so that the kids could have a little bit of a treat, or have some little small toy or something like that.
Allison Tyler Jones: And again, it’s not the toy. It’s really them being together. It’s making the situation not horrible because them getting there to wherever it is that you’re photographing them, that is the worst possible… I don’t care how evolved and how great their relationships are, they pretty much are sure they want to kill every one of their kids and they want to divorce by the time they get there. But if they are still in that mood by the time you’re done with them, you’ve done something wrong. So Linda coming in, let’s tell the story. We’re painting that vision of like, “Yes, this is this family, this is why we’re doing it. It’s great.” So we’re setting the vision of, “Yes, we do want to have a baby. Yes, we do want to have a family.” Then you go through labor. “No, actually we don’t want a baby,” right? Then they hand you the baby.
Allison Tyler Jones: So there’s a lot of metaphors there that we can apply and just make it easier for them to make the experience better, make it easier for them to… That they know they picked the right clothes. They know they’re showing up in the right colors, even if they hate their kids.
Drake Busath: Compliments.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right, compliments. Yeah.
Drake Busath: Greeting them on location, compliments. That’s a huge way to replace the fireplace and say to the mother, “I know what it takes to get everybody dressed for a portrait and get them here. Unbelievable how you did this. You really-”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, you did a great job. Yep.
Drake Busath: That’s the fireplace. Right? You know what I was thinking too just now is that if we were doing a less sessions and had a smaller staff, I would say Linda should be the photographer’s assistant on those location sessions, right? That’d be ideal. And if someone were looking at bringing someone in to add to the team in that role of sales, then doubling as the assistant would be huge because that would solve those continuity issues. Maybe now you meet on location at the park, and you’re meeting a friend that trust already. So we-
Allison Tyler Jones: Well and with-
Drake Busath: … do that, but we can on key sessions on some.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and with our studio, we are lower volume than you are, but with Stacey, so she’s the retoucher, but she’s also an assistant. She’s an associate photographer as well. And so she’ll assist in the session, but she’s also standing there saying… When you just talk about the continuity, there’s just ways to thread things through. A mom that’s maybe worried that, “Okay, my bra strap is falling off,” or “Oh my gosh, my son didn’t wear a belt or he has weird socks on,” and the mom is going to fixate on that and Stacey can say, “Don’t worry about it. I can fix it in Photoshop. It’s no big deal.” It’s like immediately putting her at ease.
Allison Tyler Jones: So it’s like having this whole process geared to making it easier, but then also when things come up because they will reassuring, and then just smoothing it all out. Again, I don’t know why I keep going back to this, but I just feel like, I’m trying to think of an experience I’ve had somewhere where somebody has made me feel like that, and I really haven’t had that. And so I think that we have a unique ability to provide that for our clients.
Drake Busath: I think you just need to come to one of my photo tours in Italy, and we will provide that experience for you. Okay?
Allison Tyler Jones: That is true. When I went on your photo tour in Italy, which was the most amazing experience I’ve ever had in my life in Italy. Yes. So talk about that. Tell us about your Italy workshops.
Drake Busath: That was a little bit blatant.
Allison Tyler Jones: It was a good segue. No, it’s not, because-
Drake Busath: It was a crappy segue. It was a terrible segue.
Allison Tyler Jones: It was a really good segue.
Drake Busath: It was super awkward.
Allison Tyler Jones: Thanks.
Drake Busath: No but I mean, it really did come to my mind because if you’re taking people, or I’m sure some of your listeners run photo tours or workshops, and the key to that is identifying people with needs and then just attacking those needs and thinking… Which could be they’re uncomfortable ’cause they can’t find a bathroom, or it could be that they’re just uncomfortable in a group or there’s one person that talks too much, and they’re not comfortable paying super attention to their needs and not being the teacher all the time. So anyway, as my advertisement for these, we’ve got six workshops on a schedule this year in Italy, and each one week long, each in a different region of Italy, because Italy is really a series of little countries.
Allison Tyler Jones: And all of them, such different personalities. Right?
Drake Busath: And if you think of it as one country and you think, “Oh, we’ll just do the north half of the country this trip and the south another trip,” and you’re… Forget it. That’s like doing Canada and the U.S. and Mexico in one trip. So you got to deeper dive into the culture of next month I’m headed to the Ligurian Coast, the Cinque Terre, the Camogli, where you’ve been.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s what we did, and I loved it.
Drake Busath: And I’ll be there with a small group and we’ll be the whole week there. Then we’ll be in Tuscany in May and Puglia in May down on the southern heel. A new area that’s called Tuscia that nobody knows about, but I call the best kept secret that’s north of Rome. But it’s where the old Etruscan ruins are, the old Etruscan civilization was centered, and now it’s not a tourist destination, but it’s beautiful. And that’s why it’s so good, because as a photographer, you just don’t want a whole bunch of, sorry, Germans, but Germans or tourists or Americans.
Allison Tyler Jones: Or American influencers crowding-
Drake Busath: Or people with yeah-
Allison Tyler Jones: … in their red dress.
Drake Busath: …doing selfies.
Allison Tyler Jones: I can’t.
Drake Busath: Yeah. Yeah, the guy filming his girlfriend walking down the street.
Allison Tyler Jones: Their Instagram husband. Yeah.
Drake Busath: Short dress. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to escape those. That’s kind of the goal. That’s what we do. And it’s called Italy workshops.
Allison Tyler Jones: Italyworkshops.com, that’s-
Drake Busath: .com.
Allison Tyler Jones: We’ll link to that in the show notes too.
Drake Busath: And the only reason I do, that’s not a business per se, it’s my hobby, but I do it because it gives me an excuse to go over there and hang out with like-minded photographers, people that share the same values and watch them kind of develop their own styles portfolios. And it’s fascinating. So thanks for letting me chat about that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Also, you are a fluent Italian speaker, which is great. And you just know the inside track on all of those areas. I have never had a travel experience when we went with you. It was just absolutely… Talk about layers and layers of storytelling about the area and feeling like you’re into it, and feeling like you got an experience that nobody else could get. I don’t care how much money you have, and you’re such a good frugal guy too. So it’s like it’s affordable and just really great. So I can’t say enough about your workshops. I think you’re a master at that.
Drake Busath: I always remember the wine shop owner in Siena, who’s become a good friend, he usually shows us his Etruscan tomb that they discovered behind his shop.
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, what’s his name? Emilio? No, no, no. That’s the-
Drake Busath: It’s Federico.
Allison Tyler Jones: Federico, yeah.
Drake Busath: Federico.
Allison Tyler Jones: Federico.
Drake Busath: And the reason I bring him up, because Allison meets him and he says, “Oh, I’m trying to open an art gallery next door in this little shop space.” And before you know it, anybody that knows Allison wouldn’t be surprised, but she’s in there redesigning his layout in the gallery, and rehanging his artwork on the walls and changing the whole thing around. And it’s those kind of experiences with locals that make those trips special. I mean, getting to know people on a real level, being in the place, at the guy’s farm that raises the cows and then makes the mozzarella right there.
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, yeah.
Drake Busath: Eat it in his dining room. And it’s not this commercial production thing where all the tourists are going through and paying $65 to witness him make mozzarella. It’s those deeper experiences that… In a large sense, I do those to make me a better photographer. And I remember so many times coming back from a trip where I had just been photographing for me for a week and how it changed my client work, and I just saw I was more open, more free. I got out of the competition rut or the client rut that they’re expecting, and started doing things for myself. And it doesn’t last usually. I fall back into the ruts.
Allison Tyler Jones: You have to recharge.
Drake Busath: … six months Later. But coming back fresh from a trip where… And so I, whether it’s my tour, but any tour where you get free time of I’d say seven days or more to settle in and just operate on your own terms and make images for yourself and not judges, and not to sell and not to show, but just for yourself, makes you a better image maker. And I think that translates, I know it does to your client work. I’m a true believer in that. Speaking of that I need a pulpit to pound on.
Allison Tyler Jones: No, I agree. Well, but I think to bring it back around, and this is probably a good place to wrap it up, is for the sales angle and the client experience angle is just anticipating the needs and making that experience amazing and that connection, that everything is real like you’re saying. It’s not just a run-of-the-mill, “This is what everybody else is doing, so I’m going to do my business that way.” It’s literally like, “How can I take this and make this the most personal?” And yeah, I just-
Linda Smoot: It’s all in the details.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Yeah.
Linda Smoot: It’s all in the details, paying attention to the little things that are going to make a big difference.
Allison Tyler Jones: And so Linda, I want you to close us out. You came back, you changed that room, and you already had a great process. You already have a business that’s like how many, 50 years old, and it’s still amazing and thriving and great. So it’s not like you could have just kept it the way it was and doing what you’re doing. It was working, but you just did a few little changes. What do you see as the changes that made for you and for your clients?
Linda Smoot: Making it a more personal experience. Integrating that whole consultation process that Drake spoke about earlier with as many clients as we can, makes it a customized boutique experience for them. And they feel like this whole thing is not only going to be worth it, but they are getting the premier product that’s out there. They’re already at the premier studio in Utah. We’re the only studio in-house lab printing. We do everything in-house, and they’re not going to get that anywhere else, but we’re going to give them that special experience right from the beginning to the very, very end. And that’s what they deserve. And whether we have one client or 500, each of them, our goal is to treat them all as if they are the very most important client that we’ve ever served. And then they’ll be back, their friends will be back, word of mouth. So just giving the people what they want, but paying attention to those little details and making it a special experience, I think makes all the difference.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. And the thing that I love too, just hearing your passion for it, not just for what you do, but also for Busath itself. I think that’s another thing, having somebody doing your sales for you is that sometimes they can see things that you can’t, they’re more excited about it than you are. We get so in the weeds and we’re like, “Well, we’re not that great. We didn’t win that print competition, or the lighting wasn’t that good. Perfect.” And she’s like, “No, actually it was amazing. They loved it.” Having a cheerleader that’s not in the trenches on the photographic side, I think is awesome.
Drake Busath: Absolutely. It’s fresh air, it’s new, fresh blood, and we can all fall into these ruts and get maybe not completely burned out, but just a little on certain days of the week. And having staff, a team, and staff’s not a fun word, but having a team of people just to pat you on the back and chat about other things besides the business. That’s always been super important for me. And Linda right now is really a key person on our group. We have about anywhere between eight and 12 people working at the studio together. And Linda’s become, like you said, a cheerleader that’s always smiling. She’s always comes in with positive thoughts and ideas, and we get to talk about things that are not business, which is really refreshing.
Allison Tyler Jones: So Linda, last thought, what would you have to say to listeners, portrait photographers that are listening to this podcast episode who are maybe doubting themselves, doubting their abilities, “Maybe I’m not that great of a photographer”? As the Busath cheerleader what would you say to them about what it is that they really are doing for their clients? What are they bringing to their client’s life? What do you see that these photographers are bringing to their client’s life, that sometimes maybe they’re losing sight of?
Linda Smoot: Well, like I said earlier, they’re storytellers, but they really are preserving a moment in history of this family that is going to last forever. And it will be a genuine treasure in their home for always, and that’s a precious memory for them. But everybody that is working hard at their craft, photographers, most specifically here, are doing it hopefully because they have a passion for it and they love what they do, and that hopefully will translate over into the images that they create. And then that we in turn print and hang in people’s homes and just hang in there and recognize the huge impact that you’re making in people’s lives. The joy that that photograph, that portrait will bring to their families for years to come. That’s an amazing impact I think. You have more power than you realize with your art.
Allison Tyler Jones: So agree. Drake-
Drake Busath: Well said.
Allison Tyler Jones: … any final thoughts?
Drake Busath: No, I think it comes back around to the idea that maybe for some photographers bringing some help in from outside is a good thing. I mean, it can improve your lifestyle, can maybe buy you some free time. It maybe can reduce the stress that you feel when you’re working alone and the loneliness. This time of year when we’re all scared that the phone’s not going to ever ring again.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right early in the year.
Drake Busath: Since it’s winter and it’s cold here in Utah, that can be lonely. And so maybe finding a key member and building a team, at least for me, that’s been an important part of my life as a portrait photographer.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Well, you guys are the gold standard. There’s no doubt. You’ve got a unique cool thing going on up there, and I love it. And then thank you for sharing yourselves with us, because it makes a huge difference to our industry.
Drake Busath: Thanks for having us. We’re honored to be a part of your team, Allison. Thanks for having us.
Allison Tyler Jones: Heck yeah. Love it.
Linda Smoot: I’ve loved it. Thank you so much for the invite.
Allison Tyler Jones: Thank you.
Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com and on Instagram at do.the.rework.
