Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art, and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little rework. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini-workshops, and behind-the-scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love, through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the rework.

Allison Tyler Jones: Hi friends, and welcome back to The ReWork. You are going to love today’s episode, because we are talking about one of those topics that just I think makes everybody cringe. When people say, “Well, how do you get referrals? How do you ask for referrals?” The very thought of that just feels so cringey to me. And so, and I know I’m not alone. I know that many of you feel the same way, and so what happens? We don’t ask for referrals.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, I can tell you that today’s guest Mrs. Lesa Daniel, of Gregory Daniel Portraits in Florida is here. And if this soft-spoken, nice, nothing-but-class lady can ask for referrals, you and I can do it for sure. And we’re going to learn to do it the Lesa Daniel Way, and we can adopt it for our own uses, and I can’t wait for you to hear what she has to say. So, let’s dive into how to ask for referrals without it being cringey. Let’s do it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, I’m so excited to welcome this morning, Lesa Daniel from Gregory Daniel Photography in Florida. A dear friend, and just so happy to have a great sales brain, a great marketing brain in the studio. I’m so happy that you’re here today.

Lesa Daniel: Thank you so much, it’s a pleasure to be here. I don’t know if I can live up to those greats, but I’ll do my very best.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, there are more superlatives. I left off a few.

Lesa Daniel: Okay, well, we’ll leave it at that. We’ll leave it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Keeping Gregory on track, keeping him properly nutrition-ized, all the things that you do for other people in your world, and grandmother extraordinaire.

Lesa Daniel: Yeah, there we go. I’ll take that one.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s the best title, for sure. Okay, so Lesa, you want to talk about what you call the six degrees of separation. So, tell me a little bit about that.

Lesa Daniel: Well, I really truly find that in this world that we are living in now, it’s all about relationships and relationship marketing, and there’s lots of books on that kind of thing. But it’s very basic to me. It is the old-fashioned word of mouth, as people want to call it, but it’s using a little bit of help or a trigger, like from me to a client trying to get somebody new in.

Lesa Daniel: So, I feel like in this world where we are bombarded with beautiful pictures every day on Instagram and Facebook and all the things, it’s kind of overwhelming for any client to want to do anything. They don’t even know where to start, they don’t know what to do. So if we use some of our trigger marketing techniques and some of our relationship marketing techniques, I think that seems to work the best, at least for what we do. We are a higher-end studio, we are a lower volume, so we’re not crazy, as far as having seven or eight…

Allison Tyler Jones: Hundreds of people through the door, yeah.

Lesa Daniel: No, that’s not who we are. Not that there’s a thing wrong with that. I am flat-out too old to do that anymore, so we don’t do that.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, you’re intentionally low volume. So the people that… Well, and also, what you’re creating for your clients is very labor-intensive. It’s not like a bunch of little things, it’s like one big really special thing that takes a long time and maybe some secondary pieces. Would you say that’s fair?

Lesa Daniel: Yes, I would say that’s very accurate, yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah. We’re not focused on a whole lot of, as your terms go, a whole lot a little, but we’re talking about some bigs and something special, something that will last their lifetime, be passed on, statement pieces.

Allison Tyler Jones: What would you say, or if you know or not, what is your repeat client? Are you having a lot of people coming back? Are you having mostly new clients in a year?

Lesa Daniel: At this stage of our game, we’ve been doing this for over 45 years. I hate to say that because then that’s going to age. I’ve only been doing it for 43, so I’ve been married to Greg-

Allison Tyler Jones: But you were a child bride, you were 12 when you started, yeah.

Lesa Daniel: That’s right. That’s right. We’ve been doing this a while. So yes, we do have a lot of repeat clients. And a lot of them started out pretty much at the same age we were with their young families. And then as we have progressed in Greg’s abilities of creating painted pieces and embellished mixed media pieces, our clients have also grown in age and in abilities to be able to purchase pieces that are a little bit more stately and a little more expensive. And so now our repeats are about, we have some that are every year. There’s not a whole lot. I’ll be very honest and say there’s not a ton that are every single year, but we do have a lot that are every five years, every 10 years. My family is complete, my grandchildren, my children say that my grandchildren are all here now. That kind of thing.

Allison Tyler Jones: And when you’ve been in business that long and you’ve had those good relationships that long, you have enough clients that if they’re doing it every other year, every five years, every year is somebody’s every five years.

Lesa Daniel: That’s it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right?

Lesa Daniel: That is true. That is very, very true.

Allison Tyler Jones: For those that are listening that don’t necessarily have that, what I would call a foundation, that foundation of your initial clientele, that you’re still trying to build that clientele. And as are you and I, we’re still trying to build our clientele.

Lesa Daniel: Sure.

Allison Tyler Jones: I mean, every year you can’t… I mean, people age out. I don’t mean age out, people die. We need new people all the time, right?

Lesa Daniel: That’s right.

Allison Tyler Jones: So what are we doing to bring in new clients? And that’s your six degrees of separation, maybe compared to what people think you should be doing to bring in new clients.

Lesa Daniel: Well, what I have done is I’ve established with some of my previous clients, my great clients, and I’m going to use a term that Seth Godin created called sneezers. And for those that aren’t familiar with that, sneezer, like when you have a cold and you sneeze, it’s very gross, but little droplets go everywhere. That is a sneezer. Someone who’s all about Gregory Daniel, they want the world to know that they had a Gregory Daniel portrait, that Gregory Daniel is their photographer, their portrait artist, their whatever their pieces are. And someone comes to the home, they talk all about all their pieces, it’s a status symbol.

Lesa Daniel: So we are looking for those sneezers that like to go to the parties, that like to be part of the social group, those people. And we encourage them to, the next time somebody comes to your house and says, “Mrs. Jones, I’m going to use you. Mrs. Jones, I love these portraits that are on your wall. Look at behind you, they’re gorgeous. Who did that?” You can say, “Gregory Daniel portraits did this, and let me give you my pamphlet that they have. They have a little catalog type of pamphlet that I can give you that you can call them, and they would love to do something for you. I know they would,” because now that puts this woman put to you, Mrs. Jones, into the perfect place. You are telling your friends about somebody you love and some piece in your home that you love and you want them to have it too.

Lesa Daniel: So, she will then call me and I’ve just told them, “Just when you do that, call me, give me that person’s name, and I will touch base with them. But please make sure that you let them know I’m going to call, or I’m going to text, or I’m going to do whatever.” So that it’s not a cold call. But we give them, when we deliver our portraits to our clients, we give them our portrait guide and give them several and say, “When somebody comments on this, give them this portrait guide. Let me know who it is, and I will help them make this happen.” Because what seems to happen to all of us in different aspects of our lives is that we’re busy.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, for sure.

Lesa Daniel: And there’s going to be a list of things that we need to get done, and the things that are screaming at you are the things that will get done. And to call Gregory Daniel to get a portrait done goes on tomorrow’s list and then tomorrow’s list, and then let’s just go ahead and do it after the first of the year. And then, oh gosh, it’s almost Easter, and two years has gone by.

Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.

Lesa Daniel: So, that happens to all of us in different kinds of things and it happens to our business. So, what I do is I will call that person and help them establish what is a good time for them, as far as the time of year. What works as far as where we would possibly create something, and let me help you make it happen because I know you are crazy busy. You have seven children, you have 11 grandchildren. This is the last thing you want to think about, but you want it so badly. So, let me help you.

Lesa Daniel: So for example, I did this just this week. I had a client call me and she said, “I know somebody who was commenting on my pieces and I gave her your name.” I said, “Well, if you will call her, let her know that I’m going to call her.” Consequently, we met, she has four children all under the age of six. We know that she’s a busy mom and she said, “Thank you so much for calling me because I can’t get to this on my own.” And I’m like, I get it, I get it. I remember.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, we’ve all been there, yeah.

Lesa Daniel: Yeah, so we met. We’re going to do it in April, because it’s in between some birthdays and yada, yada, yada. I never would’ve gotten her as a client had I not planted that seed in my sneezer’s mind.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Well, I think, okay, so let me just recap because I want to make sure I understand this. I wrote it down. So when you’re delivering or you’re installing the work to the client, your finished product, you’re giving them several brochures and just letting them know, “Hey, if somebody comments and loves what’s on your wall, give them one of these. Let me know that you gave it to them. Let them know that I’m going to be…” Shoot them a text, “Hey, she’s going to call you,” and let them know. And then you just follow up with that. And that is so not cringey.

Lesa Daniel: Right, it’s not creepy.

Allison Tyler Jones: It’s not, who do you know that you could give three of these things to and I’ll give you $100 for each person that you do it.

Lesa Daniel: Yeah, yeah. I don’t care for that, and I don’t care for making it seem like we’re trying to get more business out of them. It’s just a yucky feeling. So this way, she honored because they love what she has. Oh, it’s no different than you have a beautiful pair of shoes, somebody comments on your shoes and you go, “Oh, thanks. I got these at XYZ, and it’s at the millennia and these are the best shoes I’ve ever. You should try them, go get them before they run out.” It’s no different. The way Greg likes to think on this, on a lot of things he thinks very differently. I’m grateful for, but one of the things, he likes to use other businesses as examples and apply it to us. And so that is one of the examples. I love your shoes. Thank you, and then you start talking about your shoes because you’re so proud you have these. It’s like, why can’t we do that in our business? We can, we certainly can.

Lesa Daniel: So I have trained the trainer by giving her these brochures. I’ve trained her on what to say. So it’s not like I have to go back and call her, and has anybody liked your portraits? Well, I hope so, or it just puts her in an awkward position. But this way she does it for me and she’s happy. And the person that I’m dealing with now, my new client, is thrilled because it’s going to happen.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and it’s an easy intro too, to when you call to say, “I was just talking to so-and-so and she said you were over looking at the portraits and don’t you love her? And isn’t she great and aren’t those kids gorgeous?” And so none of it is about you and your talent and what a great photographer you are. It’s all about how much you both love that client of yours and how you would love to have a relationship like that with this new, and create something as beautiful for them, for their family. Again, not about you, not about you, not about you. It’s all about them.

Lesa Daniel: It’s all about them, it’s all about them. Sometimes I find that someone is new to their neighborhood or their home, their new home. And another easy entrance is, this is so great that you now are here in this home. This portrait will commemorate how old your kids are when you move in. And I have that in my house, I personally have that. My girls were two and four when we moved into our home. It is still in the dining room hanging up, they’re two and four. So I can look at that and go, that’s how old they were when we moved in this house. You can do that as well. And if you move several times, then maybe that portrait will need to move to a new place in your next home, and then do it again to commemorate this next move, this next location. So, that’s another very easy entrance into creating some portraits for different people.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that too, and I think that really speaks to using your own personal experience of why portraits mean something to you, to talk about it to clients. I think that’s, like my mom had all of us photographed at two years old, each kid in an individual portrait. And her mother did that with all of her kids, so, and then I did it. So there’s like three generations of these two-year-old portraits because-

Lesa Daniel: Oh, I bet they’re just lovely.

Allison Tyler Jones: Darling. And then everybody, when somebody passes and we all got our two-year-old portraits, we all have that little treasure of just us. Sometimes you think, man, I run out of ideas of why to bring somebody back in or how to get them back in, and there’s just endless reasons.

Lesa Daniel: Endless reasons, endless reasons. Somebody’s graduating and you know that from maybe it’s a past client and you photographed them when they were five and seven, and now you know that it’s 10 years later someone’s going to graduate. Why wouldn’t you call and say, “Before your family dynamics change. The family won’t change, but the dynamics will, once that child goes away in college, let’s get this portrait done. I have one of those as well, and that’s one of my favorites.” So just use your own personal life experiences.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s so true. But to do that, you have to have data on your clients to know-

Lesa Daniel: Ah, yes, you do.

Allison Tyler Jones: … their ages and you have to be able to look into that, which again, I’m always banging that drum, is that you’ve got to, the existing client is where to look. But again, so we’re talking about new clients, attracting new clients, getting new clients into your studio. We’re doing that with existing clients. Using existing clients as the springboard to do that.

Lesa Daniel: Correct, correct.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. What else you got?

Lesa Daniel: What else do I?

Allison Tyler Jones: I mean, so what’s the six degrees of separation? What is that?

Lesa Daniel: So, well, in this case, it was only two degrees. It was my friend. I’m going to say you, you are my client, and you told me about your friend who saw your portrait. So that’s really only two degrees. Maybe you are part of a charity that you would volunteer for on that board, and you know two people there that may be interested and you would give me that information. Generally, it’s about a two to three degree of separation because then the opinion is valid and valued by a potential client. But you may know some people that way.

Lesa Daniel: Maybe I volunteer myself on a board and I’m on this board, I meet three or four people who may or may not use me, but they would love to someday if they could, but they tell their friends about me or about Greg because they really love what we do and they like what we stand for on that board, and they send their friends to me that way. So, it’s relationship marketing. The six degrees is the book that was out. I can’t even tell you who the author is at the moment, but-

Allison Tyler Jones: I’ll find it.

Lesa Daniel: Okay, but it’s really, in my world, it’s more like two or three degrees.

Allison Tyler Jones: Let me ask you a question. I have a couple of clients who are, I would definitely call them sneezers, that just love what we do, they come every year. And they’ll say to me things like, “Hey, did so-and-so call you? Have you photographed so-and-so yet?” And I’m like, “No, we haven’t seen them.” “Oh, well they’re going to call you because we told them, they came in, they loved what we did, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.”

Lesa Daniel: Well, if you leave it at that-

Allison Tyler Jones: Would you do in that situation?

Lesa Daniel: What would I do? I would say, “Okay, you know what’s going to happen is your friend that you just told me about probably really does want to come in, but if she’s like the rest of us, she’s swamped and we’re not going to be top on her list. Her top on her list is picking up the kids from school at 3:00, and then making sure there’s dinner and we got to get to the baseball game.” So if you don’t mind texting her real quick, asking if she would mind if I get her phone number, I’ll give her a quick text and see if I can set up a time for a consultation and we’ll go from there.” And that way she doesn’t have to try to make this happen.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, that’s so good.

Lesa Daniel: It’s just real easy.

Allison Tyler Jones: I’m just thinking of how many things I’ve left like that, that… because-

Lesa Daniel: I have too, we’ve all done it.

Allison Tyler Jones: I just think, what do you say in that? Because just as soon as you’re talking about this, I’m like, wait a minute, I can think of six things in the last year that somebody’s like, “Hey, so-and-so, did they call you because they really want to do it? They were on fire about it.” And I’m like, “Oh no, we haven’t seen them,” and I’m like, “Well, hopefully they call.”

Lesa Daniel: Yeah, and it does depend on your frame of mind. I mean, if you are also-

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, and I know better.

Lesa Daniel: Yeah, well, if you’re swamped and overwhelmed, sometimes you’re like, okay, I’ll get to that, because then it’s the same situation for you. But that, it is a pretty easy way.

Allison Tyler Jones: But that lead in, I think that first sentence, because if you skip that first sentence, which is, “Look, she’s probably, if she’s like me or you, she’s so busy with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you don’t mind to just text her real quick, I’ll text her right now. And then at least it gets on the board.” That’s so no pressure at all. The fact that they brought it up to you, it’s in their mind. They want to get credit that they referred somebody. So it’s not cringey, whereas if you just went straight to, “Hey, well, text them right now and I’ll get them in,” then that feels a little pushy.

Lesa Daniel: A lot pushy.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, but if you were like, hey, the reason why she hasn’t is, she’s a mom. I think that’s so great. Oh my gosh, that makes me sick because I want to go back and do that, but at least I know what to do going forward. So, that’s great.

Lesa Daniel: There you go, there you go. We are part of a country club here in our area, for the very reason of our business, and I take a lot of clients, past clients out to lunch. I may not have seen them in three or four years, and I may say, “Hey, Stacy, let’s go to lunch at the yacht club. Do you guys have have any time next week or whatever?” We’ll go to lunch and we will not talk about the studio unless she says, “Have you guys been busy?” “Oh yeah, we’ve been doing great, blah, blah, blah,” but then I kind of let it slide and go away. That’s not going to be about me. It’s going to be all about her and catching up with her. And then she may very well say, “We had a Christmas party and so-and-so commented. Did they ever call you?” Perfect time. Perfect time. Or she may go home and see some friends at Mahjong or whatever and say, “Oh, I had lunch with Lesa Daniel today. You know, Gregory Daniel portraits?” It just kind of is another way of getting your name out.

Allison Tyler Jones: Triggers.

Lesa Daniel: They are triggers. They are what Greg calls trigger marketing. And I just take people to lunch all the time. I take my sneezers out to lunch a lot, just to stay in touch with them. And honestly, as we all do, we have some great clients that become friends.

Allison Tyler Jones: Become friends, for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Lesa Daniel: And that’s what I’m doing too, is taking them. But I take them to the yacht club because that is a location where a lot of my clients are.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right, and I’m sure you’ve had situations where somebody, one of their friends comes in and starts talking to them and they introduce you to them or whatever. I mean that, of course, that’s going to happen.

Allison Tyler Jones: So if you don’t have a yacht club or a country club, I’m thinking in my area, I mean, there are country clubs in my area, but there are a couple of restaurants in our area that are kind of the watering holes for my good clients. So I think for somebody that’s listening to this that’s like, look, I can’t afford a country club membership. How would I do that? You can go to those. You’re not at Applebee’s, okay?

Lesa Daniel: Nope.

Allison Tyler Jones: You’re going to be at whatever the restaurant is, and it’s not necessarily the shi-shi restaurant either. It’s going to be the really good, yummy local place that people, that your clients, your best clients, like to go to. And if you don’t know what that is, find out.

Lesa Daniel: Yes, yes, yes. And maybe you become part of a book club, maybe you become part of whatever, just to be social. And I know, I know, I know, that a lot of photographers like to be behind the camera for a reason, because they don’t want to be out there and put themselves out there. But in this way of marketing this, what I do, fortunately, I’m a people person, so I don’t mind doing this, I enjoy it. And so I think if you hate to do this kind of thing, it’s not going to work. You may need to find somebody else who will do this for you. I don’t know the answer because I’m not in that situation, but.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right, but well, it’s just like anything else though. It’s like if you’re going to be a portrait photographer and you don’t like people, you really are in the wrong business, in my opinion.

Lesa Daniel: Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: I mean, that’s a harsh way to say it, but it’s just, that’s a fact. You can do a beautiful job out of it, you’re never going to really reach the heights that you want to reach because it’s all about relationship and people and how you interact with people. And some people might be more social than others, but you can play to your strengths. In fact, my book club that I’m in has three of my clients, three of my best clients is in my book.

Lesa Daniel: There you go, there you go.

Allison Tyler Jones: And that was kind of just came about from conversations that we’ve had over the years or whatever, so but I love books and I love reading. So that plays to my strengths. Whereas going to a country club and having to really get maybe dressed up or whatever, kill me now. I’d rather go to the restaurant. The country club thing just wouldn’t suit me, it just wouldn’t. So again, I think that there’s not any one right way to do it, we can all play to our strengths. Some people might be pickleball players, or-

Lesa Daniel: There you go.

Allison Tyler Jones: … hikers or whatever, fill in the blank.

Lesa Daniel: Whatever.

Allison Tyler Jones: You attract the kind of person I think that you are too. Also, the kind of families that you are. I think it’s just really interesting when you really look at your clientele, you can kind of see some threads of these people vibe with you with who you are.

Lesa Daniel: That’s right. That’s right, and so then they want to be around you. They want to support you, and they love what you do, so.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, and they look at your work and there’s something about that that resonates with them. And then it attracts other people like that.

Lesa Daniel: That’s right, and you like doing business with people you like.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.

Lesa Daniel: You don’t want to do business with someone you’re like, I just can’t stand this person. So if you’re very similar to them, they’re going to like you, and that’s going to be great. It can work, really, really well.

Allison Tyler Jones: And then you’re building a business that you love with people, clients that you love, and relationships that you love. I mean, what could be… And you’re helping them document the people that they love. What could be better? What a meaningful, rich life.

Lesa Daniel: Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely, absolutely.

Allison Tyler Jones: And you’ve done it, you’ve created it. I think it’s so interesting how you guys have created that, I feel like we’ve created that, but our businesses look, our styles are incredibly different. And probably our clientele is probably incredibly different.

Lesa Daniel: Probably so. Yeah, probably so.

Allison Tyler Jones: But yet we love it and it’s meaningful. So it could be, there’s a lot of different ways to do it, I guess is what I’m trying to say. There’s no one mold, like you have to do it Gregory Daniel’s way, it has to look like this, or it has to look like ATJ, or it has to look like Tim Walden. No, it can be so many different ways.

Lesa Daniel: Yes, yes, and just think of it in terms of even your personal style. Greg’s personal style is when he’s with clients, he’s got his jeans on, he’s got a jacket on, just to elevate. That’s his… That may not be your style, it doesn’t need to be. That’s just who he is and the statement he’s making. You wear black a lot, I never wear black. You look great in it, I do not. So, for us-

Allison Tyler Jones: You look great in everything.

Lesa Daniel: This is navy. You can’t tell it, our styles are different in just how we appear, and that’s the way we need to be as far as our clients are concerned too. Don’t try to be like Lesa, it’s not going to work. You be you and take some nuggets and some principles from what we’re talking about and apply that. But don’t try to say it the way I do or be exactly as I am because, and I’m going to change it, I’m going to evolve. I’m going to continually evolve as I-

Allison Tyler Jones: Sure.

Lesa Daniel: … learn more and do better at what I do. So, I think we all need to work on who we are and be the best version of that.

Allison Tyler Jones: For sure. I feel like when I first started out, I didn’t even know who I was.

Lesa Daniel: Oh, absolutely.

Allison Tyler Jones: You know what I mean? You’re kind of generalist, you’re kind of doing a little bit of everything for everyone and hoping that something sticks and that people will pay you to do something with your camera. And so you don’t really know. And then you do, you kind of attract a motley crew of people. So you’re going to get people that are going to boss you around and tell you how to do it, or they’re going to ask you for things that you really don’t want to do that aren’t you. And so what can happen is you can get a business or get known for things that you really hate, and there comes a time where you have to maybe prune some of that and kind of move forward in an intentional way, rather than just saying, “Sure, I’m here and I’ll do whatever you want.” You can step forward and say, “No, this is what we specialize in,” and that’s how you’re able to get those sneezers to speak for you, is that you have a clear message to give them. It’s not like, “Oh yeah, Greg and Lesa will do whatever you need. You need your ladybug in your front yard photographed? Sure, he’ll be right there.” Or you’re… No, it’s families, it looks like this, it’s in this kind of frame. It’s painted, it’s amazing, it’s over the top. And that’s who you need to go to for that.

Lesa Daniel: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. That’s who we are, that’s what we do.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. Well, you always have, every time that you’ve been on, you guys always have the best nuggets of information. I always learn something, and so I appreciate you taking the time to be with us today because we are in the thick of the busy, busy, busy, busy. So I know that you, time is at a premium, so I really appreciate your time.

Lesa Daniel: Oh, I’m happy to do it. I’m very happy to do it. I’m happy to do it for you, but I’m also happy to do it for all of your listeners. I am one of those listeners, so there’s little nuggets that we all get from your podcast. So, I thank you for doing it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, thank you. Well, it’s a labor of love for sure. Before we go, is there, I kind of want to ask you a couple of questions. One is, what is something that you would tell your younger in business self? Is there something that you’ve learned that you would, if you could go back, what’s something that now that you wish you had known then?

Lesa Daniel: I think one of the biggest things is not to be afraid of pricing. We’ve been doing this a long time. So our younger self started, Greg was 19, I was 22, and it was a long time ago. So, we were just like everyone else. We were afraid, we were afraid if we charged too much, people would not pay. And I would tell my younger self, don’t pay attention to what somebody else is doing. Pay attention to what you feel is appropriate for what you are doing for your market, for your area. And be confident and strong about that, and not be afraid. Because I was very afraid.

Allison Tyler Jones: So good, yeah.

Lesa Daniel: I think most of us are, as we all were. And so they’re not going to come in the door. Well, maybe those three people won’t, but there’ll be two more that will, because now you’ve elevated yourself. So I think it would be pricing, don’t be afraid of your pricing. And I think we struggled with that for many years at different levels.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, for sure.

Lesa Daniel: As we moved up, yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: I think that’s such good advice. And then last, is there a favorite book, business book or anything that you’ve been reading lately? Or it could be a classic that you just love that you read again and again. You’ve given us a couple with the Six Degrees of Separation, we’ll find out what that is and who that author is and link that in the show notes. And you’ve said Seth Godin, also that you love Seth Godin.

Lesa Daniel: We’ve read every single one of his books over and over again. I find him brilliant, just brilliant. Right now I am not doing anything business-y. I’m a book, a Kindle, and an audio person going all at the same time.

Allison Tyler Jones: Same. Same.

Lesa Daniel: Really?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes.

Lesa Daniel: So I’ve got the Rose Code on my Kindle.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, that was good.

Lesa Daniel: That was good. I just finished The Women.

Allison Tyler Jones: Did you like it?

Lesa Daniel: I loved it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, love that.

Lesa Daniel: Did you like it?

Allison Tyler Jones: I did not like it. I’m the only person on the planet that did not like that book. I liked the first part of it, but then I felt it devolved into soap opera YA thing. But I loved until she got home from Vietnam, and then the rest of it was just blah. I loved the Vietnam part though.

Lesa Daniel: I did too.

Allison Tyler Jones: I thought, yeah.

Lesa Daniel: Yeah, oh, yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so The Women, and then what was the other one?

Lesa Daniel: And the other one that I am reading right now is, golly, it’s called, Be Ready When Luck Happens, and it’s Ina Garten.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, yeah. The one with her memoir.

Lesa Daniel: I think there’s some business nuggets in there.

Allison Tyler Jones: For sure.

Lesa Daniel: For one, I love to cook, so I really like her as a role model, and I like to entertain, but I also listening to her business strategies or lack of. She would just throw herself out there and just do it. And so I really enjoyed that book a lot. A lot.

Allison Tyler Jones: I’m going to read that. I’ve heard good things. Yeah, I’ve got on my audio, I have Middlemarch by George Eliot, so it’s a 45-hour.

Lesa Daniel: 45 hours?

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, it’s so good. Oh, it’s so good. My English major is just like, my brain cells are soaking it up, it’s so good. But there’s a million characters, but it’s so good. I’ve got that on audio. And then I just finished, well, for our book club, we read James by Percival Everett, which was amazing. And that was, it’s basically kind of a retelling of Huckleberry Fin but from the slave’s perspective, from Jim’s perspective.

Lesa Daniel: Oh, so interesting.

Allison Tyler Jones: And it is so good, it’s so good. It’s one, it’s on the top 10 list for the year for 2024, all over on everybody’s list. Yeah, so that’s on my Kindle app. And then I don’t know what kind of books you like to read, but now this is turning into book club, but the Strange Sally Diamond was like an Irish novel about this girl kind of spectrum-y, but there’s a reason why and it’s kind of dark. And anyway, so that’s a good one too. So, but yeah, I’m the same. I will do audio, Kindle, and then if I really, really loved it and I want to mark it up, then I’ll buy the actual book.

Lesa Daniel: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I would love to have one of those beautiful libraries, but I don’t, but yes.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, you need one. How are you… Yes, you do. That picture of you, that one picture of you and Greg.

Lesa Daniel: Well, it’s just one wall. I would like to have a library.

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s one thing that when we built this house, I was like, I have got to have the library, the dining library. And so that room of bookshelves is like, every time I walk in there, I’m just like, even though I don’t really read books anymore, but they’re my trophy. So when I finish them on Audible or finish them on Kindle, then I will buy the book, and then that’s my trophy.

Lesa Daniel: Yes, absolutely. I do that, I do that.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. I love that you’re all readers. We need to have our own book club.

Lesa Daniel: That’s right. I would love that, I would love that.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, well, we’ll do that. We’ll do it by text because we’re so busy. Why can’t we not do it by text?

Lesa Daniel: We can, yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, all right. We’re doing it.

Lesa Daniel: All righty.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, you’re the best. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Appreciate you so much.

Lesa Daniel: Thank you. Loved it.

Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at Doetherework.com and on Instagram at do.the.rework.

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