Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art, and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little ReWork. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini workshops, and behind the scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait study every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the ReWork!
Allison Tyler Jones: Hi, friends. Welcome back to The ReWork. Well, it’s family portrait season, and it’s our job to not only provide an amazing product for our clients, but an amazing experience to wrap that product in. There’s no better person to talk about an amazing client experience with than Kathryn Langsford from Photos By Kathryn in Vancouver, Canada. Today we’re going to do just that. We are going to explore the three keys, or pillars, that we adhere to to provide a stellar client experience for every single one of our family portrait sessions. This is one you’re going to want to take notes on, so let’s do it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. She’s back.
Kathryn Langsford: Hi.
Allison Tyler Jones: PBK, Kathryn Langsford in the house.
Kathryn Langsford: Hello!
Allison Tyler Jones: So glad you’re here. Looking so good today. Okay. Fall is coming. Family portrait season is almost here. We’re getting ready. What are we going to do this year to make it amazing that we haven’t done before? Things that we talk about every year.
Kathryn Langsford: At some point.
Allison Tyler Jones: Been doing this a long time.
Kathryn Langsford: We do revisit this regularly.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. What would you say are the core elements of a stellar family portrait experience?
Kathryn Langsford: I think there’s a few pillars. I try to make sure that I think of everything on their behalf. The way that I do that is by listening. Listening to the things that mom maybe forgot or wishes she’d brought. Or maybe noticing, over the years, things that would have made it easier. Examples are making sure I have my studio bathroom stocked with things to hold hair back.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Little clips, little bobby pins, and little headbands.
Allison Tyler Jones: Hairspray.
Kathryn Langsford: These little hair ties, and hairspray.
Allison Tyler Jones: A clean brush.
Kathryn Langsford: Product for the boys. Yeah, all of that. Wipes for the kids’ faces.
Allison Tyler Jones: What is it with the kids’ faces? Why? I had seven kids. Stacey’s always like, “Did this kid brush his teeth within the last week?” What is happening here?
Kathryn Langsford: I know. These are things that have caused problems. Those aren’t big problems, but the little problems add up. Let’s back up.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: When people walk in the studio, 75% of the time they have just had the biggest fight of their marriage in the car on the way over. Let’s face that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Kathryn Langsford: They’re sweating, they’re anxious. Especially mom. I don’t want to stereotype, but it’s often the mom.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Is worried about everybody’s mood, worried about everybody’s hair.
Allison Tyler Jones: Outfit.
Kathryn Langsford: “Did I remember to take out all those clothes? Oh, no, I think I forgot that one shirt that was hanging next to the door. Is there dog hair on everyone from sitting in the back seat?” Just so many things are running through her head. “Is my kid going to smile weird? Is my little girl’s ponytail crooked?” All of those things.
Kathryn Langsford: I know that. I’ve heard people say things like that. And also, I am a mom so I know the kind of things. We try to equip ourselves in the way that we’re behaving and the way the studio is set up and prepared to handle everything. To take everything off her plate so that she’s got nothing to worry about. Part of that has to do with making sure that we can fix any kind of appearance problem.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Hair stuff. We got garment stuff. We have scissors to cut off tags. We have safety pins to close something up if there’s a little hole somewhere. We even have a little sewing kit. It only had to be used once, but that once was needed.
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Kathryn Langsford: We have lint rollers. We have anything that’ll take care of those sort of problems. We have a garment steamer. We have a rolling garment rack to hang things up so they don’t get wrinkled.
Allison Tyler Jones: One thing I want to interject here is that, like you said, no one of these items is a big thing, but it’s death by 1000 cuts. They can add up very, very quickly, and it can lead to moms feeling incredibly stressed out. It also leads to a lot of retouching on the back end as well.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: I’ve found that having all of that stuff in a kit or at the ready … The scissors, for example. When they come in with a new suit, the stitching on the vents on the new suits are never cut. Or the skirt or whatever, has that big X.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: It needs to be cut off for almost every client that’s coming in. Why are we, “Oh, you need scissors? Oh, okay. I’ll go get them.”
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Then they’re standing there, and they’re waiting, and their kids are running around and tearing your studio apart.
Kathryn Langsford: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: Why are we doing that when we have to do it almost every time? If you have to do it once, have it in the kit.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. Lip balm because every kid has chapped lips every month of the year. Tooth floss because people have stuff in between their teeth. Just anything that has ever caused a problem, we try and have the solution really easily available. We’re handling everything. We handle the parking. We don’t do it the way you do, you have a new even level to that. But we make sure that we leave our own personal parking spot empty, and we have them text us when they’re arriving. We come down and literally, physically show them where to park. Because most of the things that make people stressed out-
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Because you’re in a downtown area.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: The parking is at a premium and it’s hard for them to find it. Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, 100%. Very hard to find parking. We have a beautiful studio, but we’re not in a nice area of town. Some people get stressed about being in this area of town. They don’t want to walk the block.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: They want to park three blocks away and walk with their little kids. We try and handle all of that. As few pain points as possible. Not only because we want to take the pain points out, but because if these people are stress-free and feel like we’re handling things, they’re going to look better.
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Kathryn Langsford: They’re going to photograph better.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: They’re going to enjoy the experience, instead of being in their head about, “Oh my God, what about this? What about that? What about this?”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: It just helps. We can help that they’re going to fight in the way over in the car-
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: Because that happens every single time. But we can make it really clear when they arrive that we’re not going to throw them into action the minute they come in the door. There is time to relax. Let’s have some water. I got a big tray of snacks and drinks there for them. I make it really clear that there’s no rush, and we have everything taken care of. That vibe helps bring the energy down usually, also.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. I think it’s so overlooked. I want to really highlight it here. If you’re listening to this while you’re on a treadmill or you’re driving, I want you to hear that again. That everything is just handled. We can’t control that they’re fighting on the way over. We can’t control that getting to this point is going to be stressful. I even let them know in the consultation, “You’re going to probably be halfway divorced by the time you get here.” If you can just get here, we’ll handle the rest.
Allison Tyler Jones: I don’t oversell it. But what I’ve found is when they come in thinking how hard it’s been, and then the actual experience is really positive and good, it’s better than if they came in happy. Does that make sense? It’s like they came in in a trough, and you send them out on a high.
Kathryn Langsford: Yes.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s the shtick. When they look at those portraits, it’s part of the product.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. 100%, people talk about that so often. How they felt when they arrived, versus how they felt when they left, and how happy they were, and their kids didn’t want to leave. They talked on the way home about how great it was. All that wraps itself around the portraits, and their experience of the portraits, and therefore the way they feel about the portraits when they see them.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Love that. Number one is handled.
Kathryn Langsford: Handled.
Allison Tyler Jones: Everything is handled.
Allison Tyler Jones: When we’re talking about snacks, I just want to insert something in here. When we’re talking about snacks and drinks, or whatever, when they first come in, as the mother of seven children, I don’t have snacks for them when they come in to get photographed. We have water. I don’t have snacks for them because I know that one of their kids is going to be like one of my brain-dead kids, who’s going to get chocolate or something on them. Even anything, candy that we give them, is Smarties. It’s not going to make their mouth red, it’s not going to mark their clothes, or whatever. Do you have anything to say about that?
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. Our snacks are all thought out along those lines.
Allison Tyler Jones: Pretzels.
Kathryn Langsford: They’re all things like these things. They’re not going to stain anything, they’re not chocolate, they’re not red.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s a little biscuit. You’re holding up a little Biscotti.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. It’s a little Madeline from Costco, and those sesame snaps.
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, the Madeline? Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. We have popcorn. Really, the snacks work well for us, our experience. Occasionally, you get people come in and kids just want to ho down on those snacks for half-an-hour.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: But, whatever. That’s fine, too. I don’t know why, but they’re all starving when they get here.
Allison Tyler Jones: I know. Because the mom hasn’t time to think about anything like that.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. In some cases, giving kids something for their blood sugar actually really helps us. The snacks really work well for us. If there’s times when moms are really sensitive about what food their kids have, very, very, rare. She’ll say something like, “I don’t want them to have that right now,” or whatever. We’ll just take it away.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: But it’s really not an issue. The candy that we do put in there is the sugar-free, the smart pops.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Smart sweets.
Allison Tyler Jones: This is the difference between the Canadian and the American. You’re up there with your gluten-free Kombucha, and I’m down here with, “Here’s some Smarties, and some Dum-Dums. Let’s get some sugar, and get them liquored up, and out of here.”
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. It’s Vancouver. We may as well have bowls of granola out there.
Allison Tyler Jones: I know. It’s very crunchy up there. Okay. Number one core element of a stellar family portrait experience is handled, everything is handled. You’re looking at every possible pain point, get your kit together. You don’t have to have a studio to have this. If you’re shooting on location, part of your camera bag, have a kit set that has all of that stuff.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: So that you can help them have what they need.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Lint rollers, scissors. Scissors.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. The tooth flossers. We could make a little list and put it in the notes if you want.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, we’ll do that.
Kathryn Langsford: We’ll have a whole list.
Allison Tyler Jones: All right. Number two is, we’ve talked about this before, the wow.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. What’s that look like for you?
Kathryn Langsford: Examples of how we try to create the wow, it’s kind of an extension on having everything handled. We are an elevated luxury service. In trying to create that, we thought about things like five-star hotels, and fine dining restaurants, and department stores that have personal shoppers. The type of service that our clients are used to being a part of is we wanted to be online with that.
Kathryn Langsford: Simple things like the walls are repainted white on a regular basis. I don’t ever want dirty walls, smudged walls, and it happens all the time. Little lines on walls, all that is handled on a regular basis. We keep it absolutely perfectly clean. I pay for cleaners. I don’t overthink it. Even if we’re not here for a couple of weeks, I’m still paying for cleaners. I just have those cleaners regularly in here.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: I don’t want any dust or dirt, or anything. It looks perfectly pristine. Windows are perfectly clean, everything’s clean.
Allison Tyler Jones: You have so many windows and glass partitions.
Kathryn Langsford: Walls and windows.
Allison Tyler Jones: The kids are always schmutzing those up, yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Yes. Then there’s how it smells. I want it to smell basically like a spa. People come out the elevator right into the studio, so right out of the elevator we have an aroma, I can’t think of the word.
Allison Tyler Jones: Like a plug in?
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. Then the bathroom. The bathroom obviously gets used by every client. I want the bathroom to look like no one’s ever been in it before. It has to look perfect. It is hasn’t recently been cleaned, then we go over it with Windex and a paper towel. It has to look like no one’s been in there before. Very uncluttered, very ready for them, as though everything was just put here for their purpose today.
Kathryn Langsford: There’s the general appearance of the studio. Then there’s also service things that are personalized. Like text us when you’re a block away, and we’ll meet you downstairs, and take you to your parking spot. Then we end up walking them up to the building, so that we’re walking them in. It’s not hard to find, but it’s so much nicer if I have staff go down there and meet them, and bring them up.
Allison Tyler Jones: They’re not worried about, “Are we going the right way?”
Kathryn Langsford: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: Because they’ve got kids and they’re carrying clothes, or whatever.
Kathryn Langsford: They’re being escorted. Yeah. If it’s raining, we bring out umbrellas to their car, because it rains here half the year and everybody’s freaking out about their hair. We have huge golf umbrellas that are right here, ready, that we bring out to walk them in.
Kathryn Langsford: When they walk in … We borrowed this from ATG because it was such a great idea that you had. A welcome sign that says, “Welcome to the Smith Family.” Someone has drawn it out that morning, and it’s sitting right there on the table. Right beside the tray of gluten-free, sugar-free snacks that we have.
Allison Tyler Jones: Granola, Kombucha.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah, exactly. We do swag bags for the kids. We do branded swag bags that look all cute, and PBK branded. We pay close attention to what are trendy toys for each age group. Nothing extravagant, under $10. But we pay attention to what kids at each age are liking right now. Then they just get so excited about it, thrilled. It’s not lost on the parents that we’ve given then something that they really like. Those are a couple of the things that they walk into. Prior to the session, we’ve got wardrobe pickup.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Talk about that, because I think that’s really unusual. I don’t know anybody else that does this.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. Wardrobe pickup comes out of a client pain point. We just had, several times, clients show up and forgot a whole garment bag full of stuff that was by the door. Or forgot to wash the kid’s jeans, so the jeans are literally wet when they’re having the session. That’s happened more than once. Kid spilled something on their only outfit on the way over in the car. We decided that it would be worth it …The other thing that’s happened sometimes is they come and their clothes are not great.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: I know that they have great clothes.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: But what they brought isn’t great. I wish that I could have gotten in there, and had some say on that. What we do is we have a consultation about wardrobe based on what the portrait’s going to be like and what makes sense. Then I send someone from the office, my studio manager, Maddie, over to their house about a week beforehand to pick up the clothing for all those reasons. So that they don’t have to worry about it the day of the session. So that we can take a look at it and make sure that everything is there, nothing’s missing. So that we can have it hanging, and steamed, and ready for them on the day of. They don’t have to worry about anything but themselves. They’re sending their shoes, their accessories. Everything.
Kathryn Langsford: In some cases, Maddie has bags, and boxes, and garment bags, and just tons of stuff. In other cases, it’s just one outfit for each person. It doesn’t really matter. It’s totally worked in so many ways. First of all, it’s just such a load off.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: The day of, they don’t need to think about clothes at all.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: Which is a huge load of their mind. But also, there’s been many times I’ve looked through the clothes and thought, “Okay, we need something other than this shirt.” I’ll text mom the picture of the shirt and say, “Whose is this? Does he have something else?” She’ll send me pictures of what else the kid has, and I’ll say, “Bring that one instead please.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Then it just optimizes the clothing. Plus, of course, it levels everything up. It’s such a personal, high end service point.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. I love that. You’ve been doing that for about maybe two years now?
Kathryn Langsford: Maybe a year-and-a-half, something like that.
Allison Tyler Jones: A year-and-a-half? Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. We do it for pretty much everyone. There’s some exceptions. A couple of people have said, “No, I feel like I can’t organized enough to do that.” That’s fine.
Allison Tyler Jones: Sure.
Kathryn Langsford: At least we offered. But for most cases, we do it. We think about Maddie’s time, driving around to go and get it. It’s worth it. It’s totally worth it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Then you have to just factor in on your scheduling of your sessions that there’s going to be that time, that getting ready time.
Kathryn Langsford: There’s go to be enough time for me to look at it and make sure we have everything, and for them … If I need to ask them to get something else, we need to have enough time that she can get something-
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: Pulled together.
Allison Tyler Jones: I’m thinking the day of, they’re going to come and get dressed there.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah, but that’s not really that much time.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay.
Kathryn Langsford: I allow two hours for sessions.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Sessions usually take 45 minutes to an hour.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, okay.
Kathryn Langsford: I allow way extra time.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. I think that’s such an unusual and interesting level up. That’s definitely a wow.
Kathryn Langsford: A level up that came out of a pain point, like I said. It’s like, “How can we solve this problem that we’ve seen clients have over and over again?” That’s where it came from.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. What we did for that is, on our consultation game plan booklet, on the back of our booklet that we give our clients that we’re writing in during the consultation, on the back it has basically a list of, “These are the most forgotten items.” It has, “As you’re running out there door, here is the checklist. These are what everybody forgets.”
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Of course, not to be mean, but it has to do with men and boys. It’s usually shoes, belts, ties. Those are the things that they end up not … “Oh, I didn’t bring a belt. Oh, I didn’t bring my tie,” whatever.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: We just have that. Then there’s other things on the list for them to remember. “Bring your makeup for touch-ups,” and all of that kind of thing. That is really helpful. Our clients that are detailed and rule followers love that game plan booklet. They love that back page because they’re just like, “Okay.” You can see, they’ll bring it with them. They’ve got it checked off, and they have everything packed. That just helps them get ready.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: That might be good for you for clients that don’t want you to pick up, maybe having them have a checklist.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, that’s an idea.
Allison Tyler Jones: “Here are the most commonly forgotten items, so make sure you have these.” Then they don’t feel like, “Oh, I missed out.”
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. Great.
Allison Tyler Jones: Just a thought. Everything handled, number one. Number two, some kind of a wow factor. Then, the third thing in that experience is setting … This is your term. This is a PBK original. It’s setting the creative agenda for the session itself. Talk about that.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. I think it ties into so many things that we talk about. It ties into the pre-session consultation, and to starting with the end in mind, and so much of how we work.
Kathryn Langsford: The creative agenda at PBK is basically a plan for what we’re shooting and what the art’s going to be. For example, if the client is going to be ordering an album, then the creative agenda is I need various combinations, and I need to shoot enough content for an album. However, if the client is ordering a family portrait that they want to hang in a certain spot so it needs to be really large, then my creative agenda is obviously I might shoot a piece that I know is going to be 72-inches differently than a piece that I know is going to be for a holiday card.
Allison Tyler Jones: Sure.
Kathryn Langsford: In the sense that I need to make sure my setting are bang on, I need to make sure the ISO is low enough that it’s going to look great at large scale, technical things. But also, I just need it to be really perfect, all the details and the way everybody looks. If I know ahead of time that I’m shooting something like that, I am going to be ready to check a whole bunch of boxes about that portrait when I shoot it.
Kathryn Langsford: There are times with a multi-gen family that a creative agenda is a very complicated shot list. Because maybe I’m doing something different for each of the families, and I want to make sure that nothing is left out there. Sometimes there’s wardrobe changes in there. It might be that we’re shooting in white clothing on the white wall, and then we’re switching to formal on the dark canvas backdrops.
Kathryn Langsford: That’s, in general, what the creative agenda is. What it comes out of is a very tight pre-session consultation. Where we talked about what will we be creating? And where will it hang? And how big will it be? From there, obviously I work up a proposal for people, and have them approve how much it’s going to cost, and all of that. Part of how I encourage people to have that decision locked in before the session is letting them know I need that in order to set the creative agenda for your session.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: Part of what that means is if they decide, “You know what, we really only want that one family portrait for the mantle,” then that simplifies the agenda and means our session is 20 minutes long.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. I just want to stop right here, because we’re now going to say all of that again in a different way.
Kathryn Langsford: Okay.
Allison Tyler Jones: Because the reason why three is creative agenda is because it’s so common for portrait photographers to get stuck in number two, the wow. “Let’s go pick up their clothes.” I have people in our community that are going to be like, “Oh,” they’re going to start picking up clothes. Then they’re going to have swag bags for the kids. Then they’re going to have monkeys, they’re going to hire jugglers, they’re going to have clowns, and cheerleaders, and a balloon drop.
Kathryn Langsford: Absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: Then somebody that’s going to come in and do face painting, and do the nails for the mom, and the hair and makeup. It’s going to be a 75-hour production. They’re going to let them sleep overnight. They’re going to have Night at the Museum. “”We know how to do experience.” Then we hope that they buy something.
Kathryn Langsford: My favorite is balloon drop, I just want to say that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Balloon drop, I know. And cheerleaders, don’t forget. But that’s why we’re ending with the creative agenda. It’s exactly what you said. They start brainstorming in a consultation. “Yeah, we want to change our clothes.” That, for me, immediately all my hackles rise when you say you want to change clothes. I don’t love the clothes piece.
Kathryn Langsford: “We want some formal, and we want some in jeans.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, “We want this.” Okay, great. Is that an album? Is that going on the wall? As you start having these conversations, and you’re quoting pricing, then they start to go, “Oh, okay. Hold on a minute.” Well, are we going to put both formal and casual of one portrait session on the wall? Probably not. Or we might. We might. If we have a spot for it and we’re going to do it, or it’s going to go in an album, great, we’ll shoot it. If there’s no place for this to live …
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. We’re not just going to shoot endless varieties so that you have 17 different family setups to choose from.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. “Well, why don’t you just shoot it all, and then I can look at it and decide what I want?” Well, that’s not how it works. We’re not going to give you this amazing-
Kathryn Langsford: That’s how it worked in 1997 for my business.
Allison Tyler Jones: What’s that?
Kathryn Langsford: That’s how it worked in 1999 for PBK, that’s not how it works now.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Really, clients actually don’t really want that. They really don’t. How you can help them to see that they don’t is that you know that, once you start introducing more variables into something, it complicates. Especially if there’s little kids and you’re pulling clothes off over their head, it’s just a recipe for disaster.
Kathryn Langsford: They get worn out incrementally by each article of clothing.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. And what always happens is that the outfit that you like the least has the best expressions, and vice versa. Let’s just keep them in the same outfit, barring there’s a specific agenda that we’re trying to create for.
Kathryn Langsford: Right. If we’re doing an album, it’s a whole different story.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right, exactly. I love that idea of, I just want to reiterate, that when you’re in that consultation and people are saying, “Well, can’t we just shoot everything and then we’ll decide?” Then you say, “Well, we’re starting with the end in mind, with the finished product. If there’s no place for this to go, then there’s no point in stressing everybody out and shooting it. What we decide on what you’re going to end up with is what sets the creative agenda for the shoot.” That’s a really nice way of saying, “If you’re not buying it, I’m not shooting it.”
Allison Tyler Jones: You wouldn’t say that to a client, but really, that’s what it is. An attorney’s not going to write five different contracts for you and see which one you like the best.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: They’re going to take the best information that you give them, they’re going to create an amazing contract for you, and then you’re going to buy that one.
Kathryn Langsford: What’s interesting is most clients get that with one explanation.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: I think it’s us as photographers that think, “Oh, but I’m supposed to give them a lot of variety and give them a lot of choice.” Most clients understand very clearly, “Oh, yeah. It doesn’t really make sense to shoot a bunch of stuff we’re not using.” They’re just used to it from years, and years, and years of shooting 1000 frames and picking two.
Allison Tyler Jones: It actually is such a disservice because it feels so overwhelming. With my family, my sister, for example. One year, I photographed her kids, her family. It was later in the season. Usually I’ll do my family in the summer. But for some reason, she needed it closer to Thanksgiving. We were, of course, completely booked, busy. I did the opposite of what I would ever do for a client. I literally sent her a web gallery of everything I shot. I didn’t even take out when the flash didn’t fire. It was literally the entire, all 600 pictures, or whatever.
Allison Tyler Jones: She sent back. She’s like, “Would you do this to a regular client?” She’s like, “This is the worst experience I’ve ever had.” I’m like, “Well, okay, you’re not paying for it.” Whatever. It did make me realize it is such a service that we go through, and we cull them, and we eliminate. I find that the tighter the edit, the less images that I show, the happier the clients are.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: So much happier. They don’t think it when they are brand new and they think they want a lot. When they’re brand new and they’ve been working with other photographers, sometimes they feel like, “Wait a minute. Should I be seeing more?” More often than not, people are like, “Oh my gosh, this was so great.”
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. How often do they ask to see the stuff that was culled out? Never.
Allison Tyler Jones: No.
Kathryn Langsford: Ever. Ever.
Allison Tyler Jones: Maybe in the early first two years. The more you have a reason why you are shooting what you’re shooting, so before you ever even shoot it, you have an idea, a creative agenda set, then that is already predisposing them to, “Okay, Kathryn, we’re doing the family that’s going above the fireplace.”
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: “Then we’re going to do headshots, black-and-white headshots of each of the kids. That’s going to go at the stair landing. Then we’re going to do holiday cards.” That’s you got four kids, one family picture, holiday cards. That’s three things.
Kathryn Langsford: That’s it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Done.
Kathryn Langsford: You don’t need to spend an hour-and-a-half, blood, sweat, and tears trying to get all the siblings together because they’d figured out they actually aren’t even going to hang that up.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: We don’t need that photo.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, absolutely.
Kathryn Langsford: As I said before, I don’t know if I made this clear enough, introducing the idea that I shoot things based on a creative agenda, that’s what tells me what to shoot that day. Making sure they understand that, it helps it to make perfect sense when, a week before the session and they still haven’t confirmed whether or not they approved the fine art proposal I sent them, I can follow up saying, “I need to clear up the creative agenda. I don’t think we’ve confirmed this yet.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: “Does this proposal look okay?”
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Kathryn Langsford: “Once I’ve heard from you on that, I can set the creative agenda for your session.” Just making it really clear, “I don’t know what to shoot unless you tell me what you want to buy.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: That makes sense to people. It doesn’t always work, but it often works.
Allison Tyler Jones: More often than not.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah, more often than not. Way more often than not. There are sometimes when people are just like, “I just can’t decide until I see them. I don’t know if I’m going to want those headshots or not.” If they really are obviously trying their best, but they just can’t decide because what if their 10-year-old who is sometimes off-the-rails doesn’t have a good photo then they won’t want to hang it up, that’s fine. If we can decide most of it-
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Then that’s fine. But to be honest, most of the time, people walk in to what we’ve decided we’re going to be creating, and that becomes the creative agenda.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Where I feel like they need to nail down a yay or a nay is on the album.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Because that’s so many more images.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, for sure. We can’t leave that on the day.
Allison Tyler Jones: We can’t shoot them all, and then we’ll decide whether we’re shooting an album or not. No.
Kathryn Langsford: No. No. They have to decide beforehand about that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. If we’re not doing an album, then we’re not going to shoot it.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Of course, you and I are speaking about this, and we would probably not use these exact words with clients. It’s a little bit softer. But basically, I don’t think it’s bad to be clear. Because honestly, if we shoot all of these images, and you have not prepared money in your budget for an album, you are going to be mad at me. You’re going to want them all, and then you’re going to be mad that you’re not going to get them all.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, yeah. That’s the case with all of this planning for the end in mind. Them having way too many options, and deciding they want things that they didn’t know they wanted at the time of the view and order is a recipe for making them frustrated with me and my process.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. It definitely works well for everybody to talk about what we want before the session. I had a client in here today that placed a great order. But we did so much work before the order meeting today, so much work.
Allison Tyler Jones: Like what?
Kathryn Langsford: Sending me walls. Me showing them proposal of what to put on those walls. “No, husband decided he doesn’t want anything on that wall.” How about this wall? I didn’t show you this one. Us reworking where we’re hanging things for weeks before the session, a lot of back and forth. But the result was, when they came in, all the decisions were already made.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: They didn’t have to fight about which wall to hang. The fact that the husband doesn’t want anything in the office did not come out in our sales meeting. It came out a week ago, when he saw a proposal of what’s going on the wall-
Allison Tyler Jones: Before you ever shot it, yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: When we shot it, it was so tightly organized. We knew exactly what was going to go where. When they came in for the order session, it was just easy. They already knew ballpark of what it was going to cost, because we’d already figured that out. It was no problem. But big orders like that don’t happen in a quick meeting.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, they don’t happen in the salesroom. They don’t happen in the view and order.
Kathryn Langsford: No.
Allison Tyler Jones: They happen before you shoot it. Absolutely. I had the same experience earlier this week. I had two clients that came in that were just, it was just lovely. It was just easy. They came in, we’d already talked about what they wanted, and they bought what they talked about.
Kathryn Langsford: Right.
Allison Tyler Jones: Literally, most of our time … The second one, I think they were in my office for 30 minutes. 20 of that was chatting about kids, and where their kids were going to college. We were talking about family stuff, we weren’t talking about portraits. In 10 minutes, they got their big portrait that went above their fireplace, we know exactly the size, and then four headshots of the kids. Then, done, done, done. That’s it.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. It’s such a game-changer. But I can’t stress enough, I have to allow lots of time before the session for that. I need to start talking to people about proposals of what’s going to go on the wall at least four weeks before the session. So we can have back and forth, and change things, and husband’s out of town and can’t reach them for three days, or whatever.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: As long as I’ve got enough time to go back and forth, and nail that down, it is so perfect how it works out.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Of course, not every time do things work out. You have some variation on what you’re describing all the way through. Some people that won’t get back to you.
Kathryn Langsford: Oh, sure.
Allison Tyler Jones: Whatever, and then they come in.
Kathryn Langsford: Sure.
Allison Tyler Jones: It doesn’t always ever work out perfect. But if you have the idea in mind … Let’s reiterate. You have it handled for the client, we’ve thought ahead all their pain paints. So that when they come in stressed, and then they leave amazing, it’s part of the brand, it’s part of the product. It’s an amazing-
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah. It colors the experience for them.
Allison Tyler Jones: It colors the experience. The wow. Every year, you should be adding something to your lineup that is something that your client can talk about, that’s a fun thing. It doesn’t have to cost a lot of money. For us, it was a VIP parking sign.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: They are out there, not coming in because they’re photographing themselves for Instagram by the VIP parking sign with their name on it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Then lastly, and I think the most important thing is the idea of that setting the creative agenda by having a really tight consultation ahead of time. Having them know what it is that you’re going to shoot for. And holding their feet to the fire of, “I can’t perform for you what you need unless you get back to me and we make some decisions ahead of time.” That is not happening after the session, that is happening before you ever shoot it.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay.
Kathryn Langsford: That’s it.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s all. Just 20 to 25 years of hard-won experience.
Kathryn Langsford: We have officially shared all the experience and wisdom that we have.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah.
Kathryn Langsford: Done.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s it. It’s over now. Mic drop.
Kathryn Langsford: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. All right. Well, check the show notes, we’ve got something special for you in there. A link to some information of our favorite items that we keep in our studio, we’ll have that there for you. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you more than you know.
Kathryn Langsford: Thank you. I love talking to you. Bye!
Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com, and on Instagram at do.the.rework.
