Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little rework. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, mini workshops, and behind the scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the rework.

Allison Tyler Jones: Hi, friends, and welcome back to The ReWork. Today’s guest is Hildi Todrin from Crane Song Photography in Connecticut in the United States, and she is proof positive that nice girls finish first. She’s soft-spoken, but a great business woman and one of the valued members of our Mindshift community. She is going to share with us today some of the concepts that she’s applied from what she’s learned in The Art of Selling Art and the Mindshift community and how it’s helped her to be a more intentional shooter, to be proud of her pricing, to better define the scope of work when she’s working with her clients, and to really step into that role of being a trusted advisor, and she’s also got some good tips on how she’s started to sell her albums in a different way. Get your notebooks, get your pens, get your Diet Coke, because you’re going to want to take notes on this one. Let’s do it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Today, we have Ms. Hildi Todrin from Connecticut, from Crane Song Photography, and Hildi is one of our Art of Selling Art students and also an integral member of our Mindshift community. And she’s always had a great business. She’s smart, amazing, great, but she’s made some changes using some of the concepts that she’s learned in The Art of Selling Art and our community, and I wanted her to come today and share that information with you so that you can use some of these concepts as well. Welcome, Hildi. I’m so happy that you’re here.

Hildi Todrin: Ah, thanks for having me. I’m happy to be here.

Allison Tyler Jones: Love it. You’re a smart woman.

Hildi Todrin: Thank you.

Allison Tyler Jones: You just made a funny face. You are, you’re a smart woman. What are some of the changes that you made after going through the course of The Art of Selling Art? Was there anything that was an aha moment for you that you made some changes, and what did that look like?

Hildi Todrin: Yeah, there were definitely some changes. I love education and learning and-

Allison Tyler Jones: Me too.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah, it’s great and there’s lots of great education available, but certain things resonate more than others, and it always depends where you are when you’re hearing it.

Allison Tyler Jones: So true.

Hildi Todrin: What I hear now is going to be different than what I would’ve heard when I started my business in 2008 and didn’t know what the heck I was doing. And I’m embarrassed when I look back at my prices-

Allison Tyler Jones: As are we all.

Hildi Todrin: … yes, and was doing everything and anything. There was a lot that you taught that just resonated from your great approach. And there’s so much, but a couple of key things, in looking back at the class, was you talk a lot about the words matter, which I have definitely found to be the case. I’ve talked to my potential clients in consultations about just being transparent. I was being transparent, but I’m being even more upfront about the pricing, because I’m now proud of my pricing, and I know that not everyone is the right fit, and I’d rather go through the time of the consultation and determining it’s not the right fit and not investing more of our time for a bad situation or just not a great one.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, your time or the client’s time, right?

Hildi Todrin: Correct.

Allison Tyler Jones: They have to go through so much to get the clothes and get their kids down there, and then to be in a situation where they’re looking at these images that you’ve created that are beautiful, because you’re talented, and then they feel like somehow they’ve been duped or they aren’t able to afford them or whatever, that’s a horrible situation for them to be in.

Hildi Todrin: Yes. And I talk about my pricing, but I think I was trying to bury it and not being as proud of it, again, being in a different place, having an established business. But you talked about figuring out your minimum investment needed to have them come through your system with the people you employ and your overhead. I have a home-based studio, but it’s still time and effort, and as you say, for both them and for me, and I’d rather them find the person that’s going to be the best fit. That really resonated, that whole level of transparency on-

Allison Tyler Jones: You know what I love? I want to stop you there for just a second because I think you just said something so important, and I don’t want our listeners to miss it, is that you’re proud of your pricing. And I think that, when you first said that, I’m like, “Huh, that’s interesting,” but having that confidence, knowing rock solid, my pricing is where it needs to be to support the business and to support the level of service that I’m going to come in on. There’s a lot in that pride that needs to happen.

Allison Tyler Jones: When you’re proud of your pricing, when you know that, if this client comes through your process, if this client votes for you with their money, that at those prices, you are going to be able to deliver a stellar experience with no resentment, with no, “What do they expect for $20 for an eight by 10? I’m not going to retouch the boobs,” or whatever, that when you are proud of your pricing, that is a level of confidence that you know you’re priced right, and then the client is recognizing and valuing what you’re doing. I think that’s a key concept there. I really love the way that you put that.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. Yeah. I also realized, when I went to quote a piece of artwork for somebody and I thought the price was higher, and when I looked at my prices, it was lower, I’m like, “Oh, time to go up.” But, when you view it as artwork, and there are a lot of wrong fit clients, but when you find the right fit client, it’s magical, and when they buy into the system and they appreciate that level of service. Look what people pay for iPhones or for tech these days, and you turn it in in a couple years. You can’t go back in time. And I think understanding what we do, and when you, as I say, find that right fit client, it’s magical.

Hildi Todrin: And I had one of those this year, and it was just fun to overserve, and she told her husband that they weren’t doing Christmas presents, that the artwork was their present this year, and she invested in a couple of 30-by-45s of each of her kids in this big hallway. She has big walls, which isn’t as common always in Connecticut, but she grew up doing portraits that mattered to her, her husband didn’t, and I think he’s now come to see the value of it. And she said, “We’re going to do it a couple of times a year,” and she’s primed the pump in a sense because it’s so important to her. She’s going to be coming in the next couple of weeks to do an album, and we did a lot for her walls. And the best thing she ever said to me was, when we were doing her first installation, was, “You made our house a home,” and-

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.

Hildi Todrin: … that just made me realize how important it is what we do. I feel bad for people who don’t get that, but it’s not what everyone values.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Exactly. Some people are more into their car or whatever, and there’s no judgment about that. It’s just that they might not be our clients. And I think sometimes it’s easy. I’ve heard photographers say things like, “Well, they rolled up in a Range Rover and she had a Celine purse, and they have the money. They’re just cheap,” but it’s like, well, or maybe they just don’t value portraits, and that’s fine too. We don’t need to be judgy about that. It’s fine. One of the-

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. I had a client with the largest house I’ve ever seen who came to me through a silent auction, and she said upfront she wasn’t going to be a great sale, that she was only looking to buy a few 8-by-10s, the largest house I’ve ever seen, and I’m in southern Connecticut near Greenwich-New Haven.

Allison Tyler Jones: There’s a lot of big houses out there.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. And they had done this huge assemblage, huge, huge house, with a elevator and signage in the house, to the spa downstairs and the playroom downstairs, yada yada, and she had beautiful artwork in the house and nothing personal. And she bought three 8-by-10s because she wanted her interior decorator to frame them for in her office, she had no interest in me doing any framing or anything, and that’s all she bought. And if I had listened, that’s what she said up front and it was more work…

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. You didn’t to do the whole dog-and-pony show for that. Yeah.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. It was before going through the class and the whole setting the rules. And I went there on a Father’s Day because it was her grandson’s birthday, my daughter was home, we all went, and I thought it was going to be a good sale, and that wasn’t on her. She was upfront, if I had chosen to listen better. She never was willing to come to my studio. Everything was me going there. And I learned a ton from it, in looking back at it, because she was up front. They built a mountain with a waterfall. They had the golf cart. She gave me a hat with the property. When I first went to drop off the gift certificate from the silent auction, what I thought was the house was the carriage house at the front for the help, and they’re like, “Oh, no, you want the house in the back.”

Allison Tyler Jones: That’s hilarious.

Hildi Todrin: And that was bigger than most Fairfield County house, the carriage house. Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Wow, that’s amazing. Well, but I think you make such a good point is that we need to be transparent upfront, but we also need to listen and believe our clients, or the leads, the prospective clients. Listen for that minimizing language, they say they want just this, just this. Now do some of those people end up, that say they just want a little, do they sometimes end up converting to bigger? Yeah, they do, but like you said, if you’re telling me you only want three 8-by-10s and you’re an auction winner, that’s not a Father’s Day shoot where I’m going to leave my family and my husband on Father’s Day and come and photograph your family and your kids on Father’s Day in the hopes that I’m going to change your mind by shooting all of this stuff, and you only bought what you said you were going to buy.

Allison Tyler Jones: Talk about that. When we’ve talked before, you’ve said that one of the things that you really implemented was more this intentional shooting, like having a plan ahead of time using that consultation.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah, I think it’s all come together, years of experience, years of great education, luckily, tapping in some, not always good, but listening to people who are rocking the boutique model. And you talk about the intentional and having a scope of work, and I know some of that’s influenced from your sister’s interior design business, but when you talked about it that way, it made a lot of sense. When you go to the car dealer or for car service, they give you a scope of work and say, “This is what we’re doing. Are you signing off on it?” It’s no different saying, “What is our main goal here? Is it the family? Do you want energy spent on individual portraits or portraits of the kids together? Where are they going to live?” I love that. I use that.

Hildi Todrin: And I had a session where the mom had called me right before, it was another silent auction, and she said, “Well, I only have 1500 for a budget.” I said, “Fine. Well, we’ll focus on a family portrait.” And then, when we were there at the beach with the dog and four kids, she said, “Well, no, can you take this and this?” I said, “Well, that’s outside your budget. We could do 8-by-10s of those,” and she said, “Oh, I’m going over my budget.” And her best line was, “I have a champagne taste and beer budget,” but that being said, she spent over $5,000, and we found the right combination of things and she’s thrilled.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and I think what you would’ve done prior is, when somebody’s like, “Okay, we’re coming in, and I only have a $1,500 budget,” you think, “Oh, well, you’re saying that, but when you see how beautiful these images are, you’re going to fall in love with them and buy more,” but that’s really a dishonest way to proceed. When you’re more transparent, like you said, “Okay, that 1500 will get you this, a family portrait,” and you’re there shooting it, of course, when they’re in the moment and they see their kids dressed up and cute and interacting, and then they’re like, “Well, no, I do want individuals.” And so, again, it’s real easy to think, “Okay, well, if I shoot them, she said she wanted them,” but it’s important, even in that moment, to draw that line and say, “Okay, where are these going to live?”, and like you said, “Are they going on the wall? Do you want to do 8-by-10s of them?”, to get a little, even a verbal, commitment out of it in that moment, because they’re changing the scope of work.

Allison Tyler Jones: You’re not being a jerk. You’re just helping them hold them accountable to, “Look, I don’t want to blow your budget and I don’t want to ruin your marriage. I would prefer you not to get divorced over these pictures that we’re taking right now.” I say stuff like that, joking, to see is the husband on board here? Is he going to be like, “No, cut it off. We don’t want to spend …” Very often, it’s the men that are like, “Yeah, I want that.” The men actually, don’t you find, they want the picture of them with their wife. I find a lot of the men, they’re like, “Well, I want a picture with you,” and she’s like, “Oh, we don’t need that,” but really, the men do want that and they’re willing to pay for it.

Allison Tyler Jones: Anyway, I think outlining that in the consultation, but also during the shoot, that when they want to extend the scope and make it bigger, just highlight that. Have a little pause, “Okay, do you want to do individuals? All right, I will go ahead and do that. Where are those going to live?” I think that’s…

Hildi Todrin: Also, a big change from going through the course was I used to offer the series in one frame, and I know you’re not a fan of more than one in a frame, and I’ve changed that. And so I had a client just order a 24-by-36 along with three individual 14-by-14s, and I explained it gives you more flexibility down the line, where before, I might’ve sold a series of three of those in a small frame 20 inches wide. And the other big influence, I now include the installation with the bigger pieces, and I have a framer who does a great job with that. And, boy, that’s been huge, and I can see people’s relief when I say, “Oh, well, that includes installation,” and-

Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely, game changer.

Hildi Todrin: … because, in my area, I do custom frame. I don’t do it myself, but outsource that, but I do a lot of acrylics and metals, more acrylics, and those have the cleat that has to be done right. And with a 30- by-45, it has to be installed right so it’s not falling down on them, because they’re heavy.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, and also, if it’s even a tiny bit crooked, it looks like horrible. And you can see people get stressed like, “Wait, hold on, I can put a nail on the wall, but how do you hang something like that?” Yeah, I love to see the relief on especially the men’s faces, when they’re like, “Oh, oh, you’re going to install this? Oh, okay, okay. Okay.”

Hildi Todrin: And they’re so much faster at it than when my husband did it. Or I had a client years and years ago who bought nine square acrylics, and I saw her a year or two later, they still hadn’t been put up on the wall because she had been intimidated by it. And her husband had health issues, he wasn’t in a position to do it, and she hadn’t found a person to do it. And so what’s the point? She invested all that money and they never made it to the wall for years.

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. And that’s an open loop in her mind forever. And we created that, right? We did that to them. We took money from them, and we created an open loop. That is not a good thing.

Allison Tyler Jones: If you’re a portrait photographer, you know the next few months are going to be crazy. This is our busy season, and how to make the most of that busy season is to make sure that our client communication is in order, that we are not having clients showing up with the wrong clothing, that we are not having clients shocked in our sales appointments by our pricing and needing to go home and measure or going home and asking their husband, and then sales burning down, and our client’s not getting what they need and we not being able to build a sustainable business.

Allison Tyler Jones: How are we going to make sure that this season is the most successful that it possibly can be? Well, it starts by getting on the same page with your client so that nothing is left to chance. And how I’ve done this is that I’ve spent the last 13 years revising my own internal consultation form, which by the way, you can download the consultation form that I use in my business absolutely free. But I realized, after tweaking that form for about 13 years, that I needed something more, and it wasn’t just a pretty brochure, and it wasn’t a price list with no context, because we all know you can send a price list to somebody and they’re still shocked by the price because they never looked at it or they have no idea what those prices even mean. It’s happened to all of us.

Allison Tyler Jones: What I realized is I needed a single printed piece for my client to take away with them that would leave nothing to chance and that it would allow me to educate my clients about the price range of my products. It would help them to understand what we would and wouldn’t be shooting for during their portrait session, actually creating a game plan for what is it that we’re actually going to be shooting for and let’s prioritize that, and then also something that would allow the clients to feel confident about selecting the clothing for their session, a printed piece that would allow them to share with their spouse and be able to put together the game plan for their session.

Allison Tyler Jones: I needed it to be part brochure, part getting ready guide, part last minute checklist, and part consultation form, because my consultation form was internal, I was keeping that form, but I wanted this printed piece to go with my clients, and I wanted it to be sexy and good-looking, and that they felt completely and totally cared for. I wanted all of this in a single booklet that the client would take with them at the end of their consultation. Now I’ve been using this, I created it about five years ago, it’s called the ATJ Game Plan Booklet, and I started off by using it in my studio, and I’ve been revising it for the last five years. And now, for the first time ever, I’m offering it to the ReWork community to use in your portrait studio.

Allison Tyler Jones: What’s included in that? In this course, it’s a little mini-course, not a big long course, there’s a video lesson with me on how to use the Game Plan Booklet in your consultation. You will also have a video recording of an actual client consultation with me and a client using the booklet in real time, and then you will have layered PSD files of the Game Plan Booklet that we use in our studio every day, as well as a PDF version of the latest and greatest ATJ consultation form.

Allison Tyler Jones: All of that is included for just a one-time payment of 295, just 295, to completely change the way that you interact with your clients, the information that they have, how taken care of they feel by making things transparent to them, putting together the game plan for the session so that everybody’s on the same page, we all know what we’re shooting for, we know how much it’s going to cost, they know what to wear, everybody’s on the same page. This is the document, this is the booklet that has changed my business, and I want you to have it too if it works for you. Go to, that’s, and download that booklet and start using it in your business this busy season. I know that the Game Plan Booklet will be a game changer for your business.

Allison Tyler Jones: Basically, the umbrella of all the things that you’re talking about here, whether it’s being proud of your pricing, intentionally shooting, having very transparent conversations, is just being an expert, is being seen as the expert for that family’s portraits.

Hildi Todrin: Correct. You talk about, in the class, being the trusted advisor and that, when you put that hat on and understand that, I think that’s huge. And I was mentioning, I had an extended family portrait where it was a very last-minute thing with an acquaintance, and it wasn’t the normal situation where I had the time to walk her through the whole system, but when we were at her house and trying to figure out how to do 20 people at one time, and again, our Connecticut houses aren’t all the size of your Arizona houses. Luckily, she does have a nice one and there were two great options, and I was trying to see if she had a preference. One was much more formal. One was more casual. And she goes, “You tell me what will look best,” and I’m like, “Well, this will look best.” And I heard you saying, “Be the professional. Be the trust advisor. They want to be led.” I went into, “Okay, got this,” and it was the right spot.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and it’s been so fun to watch you because, like I said, you’ve been doing this since 2008, you’re not a newbie, but it’s been fun to watch you gain confidence, because you are a very kind, a little bit more softer-spoken person. And so that’s what I love the most about working through The Art of Selling Art and the Mindshift community is to see people become more of who they already are. You’re not becoming me. You’re not going to talk snarky. You’re not going to use-

Hildi Todrin: Oh, do sometimes though. I do use your, “I bet you couldn’t sleep last night,” to the dads. That has helped.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yes, yes. Right. Well, yeah, what she’s referring to is the jokey when they come in for the session, and say, “Oh, have you been laying awake nights, because you can’t wait to get your portrait taken?” because we all know the men could care less about the whole thing usually. But I love, for me, the goal in education as the instructor is I always want people to become the best version of themselves. I don’t want them to be a clone of me or any other person that you’re learning from. I want you to find a way to have your own … maybe use some of my words, but use them in your way, and I really have seen you do that. I’ve seen you grab on to those concepts and really step into that expert, and it’s been good for your business.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. My clients would thank you profusely for the candy bar idea, because that’s been a huge hit.

Allison Tyler Jones: What did you do? Did you put up … what kind of candy?

Hildi Todrin: I have multiple jars. There’s the M&M’s, Kit Kat, Snickers, Milky Way jar. There’s-

Allison Tyler Jones: Nice, the chocolate. Yes.

Hildi Todrin: … the soury-sweet, yeah, the Sour Patch Kids and the … I don’t even know because I don’t go that direction, and I got some little toffee things, and so I’ve expanded. And it’s funny because my grandfather, who I’m named after, was a candy salesman before World War II. My father’s family had nothing to eat during the Depression because people weren’t eating candy in the Depression. And my dad, for a little bit after he got out of the war, was a candy salesman. That’s always been an influence in my life, so it’s kind of funny I’ve never thought…

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that thought

Hildi Todrin: … of that. Yeah. I don’t have as beautiful a space as you do, and it was so fun seeing your new space when I was out there in April, but I have a bookshelf, so I have it on a tray, different candy jars that I pull up. And-

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.

Hildi Todrin: … what’s funny that I didn’t expect, because I also do some business portraits and stuff, some of the business portrait people are like, “Oh, can I take some of that?” and I’m like, “Sure.” And I’ve also gotten some of your … when the dads want the candy for the family session or for a business portrait, I’ll say, “Well, usually. It’s a reward for the end, but if you promise to give me good smiles, I’ll give it to you up front.”

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, we’re all still kids at heart all still. I still love toys. I love candy. I love games. I think we’re all, most of us are, and that’s a happy way to be. I think that’s a good thing. I love that.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah, for sure. And, when I do dog portraits, I have some dog treat stuff, and for clients who are investing more, I will give them dog treats that are actually a great organization you would love. It’s called Team Woofgang, and they-

Allison Tyler Jones: Team Woofgang?

Hildi Todrin: Woof, W-O-O-F-G-A-N …

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh.

Hildi Todrin: Anyway, I can send you the link, Team Woofgang. They give job trained to individuals with special needs. It was four moms of special needs individuals that created it, and one of them came up with this peanut butter-based dog treat, and now they have a retail location in Fairfield, Connecticut, and people can order it from their website as well. And all the dog treats are made by individuals with special needs. That’s how they get the job training so they can get other employment, because, as you know, it’s so hard to get meaningful employment for individuals with special needs. And they stamp them with a heart or peanuts or something, and they have the retail location, so they’ll have a job coach there giving them experience in a retail location. And during COVID, they opened up, it’s done so well, they opened up an industrial kitchen, and I photographed the ribbon-cutting for that and helped them out with that.

Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, I love that. And so then you have those dog treats there. That’s also another layer of your story is a mom of a special needs child, also a dog lover, also a pet photographer. I love it.

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. That’s worked out really well. And a client picked up something, and I asked if she needed more treats. She goes, “Oh, no, I’ve been on the website ordering it.” It’s just lovely to give back to them. They’re just celebrating five years. Our dog’s addicted to them. My yellow lab knows, at 2:00, it’s her treat time.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love it.

Hildi Todrin: She tries to push it to 1:00, but, yeah, she gets one a day.

Allison Tyler Jones: So cute. I love that.

Hildi Todrin: Apparently, the dogs all love them, but I have a lab, so she’ll never turn anything down.

Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. Well, we’ll link to that in the show notes because I think there’s lots of pet photographers that probably listen to this as well, and they love to have that extra information.

Allison Tyler Jones: Well, I appreciate all of your wisdom. I think, just to wrap this up, it’s been a joy to watch you step into your expertise, that you do know what you’re talking about, that you are proud not just of your pricing, but also of your work, and then that you know that, “I actually do know what would look good and what would be good for my clients.” Do you feel like that’s true, those have all coalesced for you over the last year or two?

Hildi Todrin: Yeah. And the only other thing I don’t think I mentioned was your influence on my album pricing, and switching to vision art has been great for me, because I was charging a lot, but not confident in the longevity of the product, and Vision Art, making it all with archival material and handmade, and you just feel them and you know the value there. I’d rather sell less albums at my new pricing for it, because I know so much time goes into it, and hearing you talk about that has really helped influence that, because I used to lead people more down the path of, “Oh, do some stuff for the walls,” and I’d mention the albums, but I wasn’t as proud of it or as confident, and now I see the value of having both aspects. And also the way you talk about in the consult that you’re going to photograph differently if you know you’re doing an album versus just wall art, and again, back to that scope of work concept, it’s really come together in understanding that and having more of those candid moments in the album.

Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. Well, and I think having an album that you are proud of … any time you have part of your product line that you don’t feel completely a 100% confident in, that’s not a good place to be in, if you don’t feel like you can confidently price it and then give that to a client and be proud of it. I think, yeah, Vision Art is amazing, and it helps to have that other product in addition to the wall art because that helps the average sales as well.

Hildi Todrin: Oh, yeah. And also just you gave me permission, in a sense, to say, “No, it only includes 18 portraits. Yes, it’s at that price, and that’s a great deal.” I do only the 10 by 10, because I was selling, for high school seniors, the 8-by-8s, and they’re just too small-

Allison Tyler Jones: Right. You can’t even see the pictures,

Hildi Todrin: … yeah, and which meant I charged less, but I was still doing all the editing for it because, even for an 8-by-8, I didn’t want it to go out looking crappy. There was just a disconnect, and I feel like, nope, 10-by-10 is the right size, yes. I was also including the portrait on the photo cover in the album, and you talked about not doing that, and I’m like, “Yeah, that makes sense. Why am I putting it in both places?” Yeah.

Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. There’s a case to be made on either end, but I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I think, when we start, we’re so excited to that anybody would pay us anything to do what we love, and we want to get experience. We love people. We love what they’re wearing. Their kids are cute. We see things happening, we want to document all of that, and we want them to see how much we love it, and so we get so enthusiastic and then we end up overwhelming. They feel sometimes shortchanged because we haven’t been as a transparent upfront. And so I love that you’ve incorporated all of these things and that it’s been helpful for you and helped your business move forward.

Allison Tyler Jones: You are a delight to have in our group, you’re an essential part of our community, and I hope you know that. It was so fun to meet you when you came last year, and I thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing your wisdom, and I just appreciate you so much.

Hildi Todrin: Oh, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. And thanks for creating the community.

Allison Tyler Jones: Thank you.

Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at and on Instagram at do.the.rework.

Share This Post