Recorded: Welcome to the ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little ReWork. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, many workshops, and behind-the-scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the ReWork.
Allison Tyler Jones: Hi, friends, and welcome back to the ReWork. If you’ve ever found yourself in a group of photographers talking shop, whether online or in real life, it usually doesn’t take too long before somebody in that group is going to tell you why whatever you’re talking about won’t work in their town, either because the population’s too small, or it just won’t work in their business, or the people in their area just aren’t ready for whatever it is that you’re talking about. So sometimes we’re around those negative people, sometimes we are those negative people.
Allison Tyler Jones: But today’s guest is Rudi Marten of Clark Martin Photography from Billings, Montana, a very sparsely populated city. He is going to share with us the story of his family’s business, how his mom and dad took their studio from a home base studio to a downtown Billings powerhouse, an industry powerhouse, and how he as the next gen, as he’s buying the studio from his parents, is taking the studio in new and really exciting directions. But at the core of it all is the core values of the Marten family, how they believe that clients should be treated. I know that you’re going to find so much inspiration in this story. Let’s do it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, today’s guest, I’m very excited to have Mr. Rudi Marten of Clark Marten Photography in our podcast studio. Thanks for being here, Rudi.
Rudi Marten: You’re welcome. It’s an honor. Thanks.
Allison Tyler Jones: So Rudi, you are one third of the Marten trio that has become so famous in our industry. Your dad is so well known and loved, and your mom is so well known and respected and loved as well. Your parents have made a change recently.
Rudi Marten: Yes. So my parents, as of a month ago, are fully 100% retired, and I have bought the business from them.
Allison Tyler Jones: Awesome. Tell us where you are, and for anybody that doesn’t know who you are, give us the rundown.
Rudi Marten: Yes, we’re in Billings, Montana. My parents started the studio in the basement of their home in Columbus, which was 40 miles from here. Billings is the largest population in Montana of a mere 130,000 people. And so, the studio was there until 2013 when I was instrumental in moving it into Downtown Billings, which is where pretty much all of our clients drove from to get to us.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. Amazing studio, exposed steel, that studio is so sexy.
Rudi Marten: Thank you.
Allison Tyler Jones: So amazing. Now, did you buy that building?
Rudi Marten: Yeah, we did buy the building. It worked as a owner operator building. There are six apartments above it, so that created some extra income for my parents in their retirement. They continue to own the building, I lease the photography space from them. At the time of purchasing the building, we needed a lot of space so that we could photograph high school seniors in an area, families in an area, and children in an area, so we are right around 10,000 square feet. The business is completely different now than when my parents were renting it, so we don’t necessarily need that much space, but when you have that space, you end up filling it somehow.
Allison Tyler Jones: Oh, yeah. I haven’t had the privilege to be in the building, but just seeing video of the space, I’m sure just having that open space just gives it that gallery high end feel.
Rudi Marten: Yeah. I designed it, especially the gallery, to be something that when you walk in my Montana people in residence would walk in going, “Whoa, I haven’t seen anything like this in Billings,” but still warm enough that it was relatable to them and they felt comfortable in it. The gallery is a very large gallery in comparison, but that was because I wanted to bring the community into the space. We have had art walks, we’ve done auctions here, we’ve had sit-down dinners, we’ve had black tie affairs, all kinds of things to bring the community into the space. That was really instrumental in getting the community to know us as a Billings business instead of an out-of-town business.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, I love that. You’ve done so many really cool events and things there. I think many people listening may or may not know your mom and dad’s story, just starting from that basement studio and kind of how many start out, like either a solopreneur or a couplepreneur and thinking, “Oh, we can’t charge, and we love everybody.” And then your mom finally shook her Scarlet O’Hara fist at the sky and said, “My kids must go to college.” And so she decided to start charging and really got the sales down, and you guys went into more of a high end boutique type portrait studio. Was that fair?
Rudi Marten: Yep, very much. The average on a high school senior was between four and $5,000. Families was around 3,500. It definitely went from, “Photograph as many people as we can for $300,” to, “We need to charge correctly so that we can make money at this as well as put our kids through college and have a life outside of the studio.”
Allison Tyler Jones: So fast forward, you come into the business. At this point, this is how many years ago that you came into the business?
Rudi Marten: I swore when I graduated high school I would never go into photography because this is right before my parents learned how to sell and price correctly and actually to run the studio as a business instead of, “We want everyone to like us.” And so growing up, we didn’t take vacations. My parents were photographing weddings at the time, so there was never weekends open. They were never home on my birthday because that was when Imaging was in January. We didn’t have money to be buying things. And so I’m like, “Why would I go into this, this is crazy?
Rudi Marten: And so I went off to college on the West Coast and got a business and marketing degree, started my own graphic design business, produced newsletters for about 100 photographers around the nation. And then in 2007, I was looking to cut some overhead and my parents were like, “We need help with this thing called Facebook.” I said, “Okay, I’ll come back and I’ll help you for one year, but don’t get used to me because I’m going back to the city.” And so, one year turned into three. I ended up closing my graphic design business and was working for my parents, and I didn’t feel called to go back to the Seattle or Portland area, didn’t know what I was going to do. I said, “You know what? I’d like to be my dad’s assistant for a full year so I can understand everything that goes into this. And I’d like to work in each department so I understand it as well. So that if I’m going to turn this down, that I really did my homework on it.”
Rudi Marten: The craziest thing happened is I fell in love with how we make people feel when we photograph them. I think that’s something that-
Allison Tyler Jones: It’s amazing
Rudi Marten: … photographers take for granted. Being photographed is a very vulnerable thing to have done to you, especially for women. And so, we as photographers have this small amount of time that we can empower and lift somebody up, or with just a few words, destroy their feelings that they’ll be like, “I don’t photograph well. I don’t look good because of one or two words that this photographer told me.” That might not be what we intended to say, but that’s what stuck to them.
Allison Tyler Jones: Or even an expression. Even a-
Rudi Marten: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: … “Yeah, that’s not working, come over here.”
Rudi Marten: Yeah. And so I fell in love with how we can increase confidence and make people feel beautiful who don’t feel beautiful and tell them they’re doing a great job with their kids even though they have the horriblest time getting their kids even in these clothes to be there, but telling them they’re doing a good job and telling the kids that, “You have amazing parents because they’re taking the time to do this, that you can have this someday down the road.”
Rudi Marten: And so that’s what I fell in love with and said, “Okay, I’m on board. I want to take over the studio one day, but I need you to know, when I do, I’m moving it out of your home studio to a downtown Billings location.” They thought I was crazy, and I said, “Let me do the numbers for you.” I showed them that 86% of our business was driving from here, so it made sense for them. And so, I then started photographing here in Billings, photographed three years so that I could really understand all of that. My dream always was to have a team of photographers working for me, and so, one, Bill Sorenson told me years ago, he said, “You should photograph to honor the industry.” I was like, “I will, I’ll do that.” And then, two, I wanted to make sure that I knew why an image didn’t look correct so that when I had photographers I could say, “This isn’t correct because of this.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it.
Rudi Marten: And they couldn’t say, “Well, you don’t know cause you never photographed.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Right.
Rudi Marten: And so I knew all those things. It has grown now to where I have three photographers on staff. I personally haven’t photographed for about three years now. My dad hasn’t photographed for two. A year ago in January is when I purchased the business from my parents. I love the mission of family portraits and what it does for kids’ confidence, their sense of belonging, and the impact it can have on their future to be amazing moms and dads in the future as well as productive citizens and creating family values around that. So that’s what we focus on now, is family portraits. My goal is to get a family portrait into as many homes as I can.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. So the business is very different now than when you were photographing and everything. You’ve gone from the high end boutique. You still have that feel, for sure, but you’ve changed the business model… I mean, you’ve changed who’s creating the product, so that’s interesting, but the brand is still totally intact, totally-
Rudi Marten: Yep.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yep?
Rudi Marten: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: So can you speak to that because I actually don’t know-
Rudi Marten: Absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: … what you’re going to say. I want to hear, I’m excited.
Rudi Marten: Yeah, absolutely. The business was designed originally around my dad, so I call it artist centric. So unless he was behind the camera, no photographs were ever being taken. If he took vacation, all business stopped. That was happening. And myself with a business degree and entrepreneurial spirit in that sense, I’m like, “Okay, how can I get this to run without me so that if I’m gone it’s still making money?” And so the first thing we did was create a session that was very systemized, and it was one that lights were in a specific spot, specific setting. We have a set of furniture that we’re going to use for posing, and we have one background.
Rudi Marten: And so, we started with that as my dad photographing to see how that went. It was doing really well. And so when I was training, and this was before we started doing this, when I was training, my goal was that when someone looks at my work, they can’t say, “Oh, well Clark didn’t photograph that, I can totally tell.” So when my work is hanging in the gallery, no one should be able to see or realize who photographed that. And so, as we then started training photographers with our new indoor family style, I was like, “This is the level you have to play at, because if I can see that this was not photographed by Clark, it’s not good enough.” And so they’re all held at that same standard, and that’s the training we take them through. I call it through Clark Marten’s eyes, and that’s the training we go through of mostly posing as well as how client feels.
Rudi Marten: The first day that I put the first non-Marten photographer in the camera room, my dad went up halfway through the day and just started introducing himself to people and things. And he came back downstairs and he goes, “They don’t miss me,” and I’m like, “I thought that might happen, but I didn’t want to tell you that.” Because they were still being photographed at a level that they saw on the walls, and they were having the experience even though it wasn’t with him.
Allison Tyler Jones: That can be a knock to the ego, but it’s also super exciting because now you’ve just transcended yourself.
Rudi Marten: Exactly. And there would be some times that he would come to me and say, “Look at this work, this is not up to the level I want.” I said, “I understand that. I also understand no one is ever going to photograph at your level. But at the same time, remember, you took last week off and you also got paid. You like that?” And he’s like, “Okay, I do like that.”
Allison Tyler Jones: There’s a couple of things there. I remember I was in a staff meeting with my staff, this is when we were bringing in associate photographer and I was feeling nervous about that, whatever, and we were talking about these very things like, “Okay, well are people going to feel like, ‘Well, if it wasn’t shot by Alison, then I’m not happy about it,’ or whatever?” All of a sudden, I just thought, “Karl Lagerfeld has… ” Well, he’s dead now, but was designing for Coco Chanel. Coco Chanel’s been dead a long time, and yet that brand is still going. In that meeting I said, “Really, we’re all just working for Allison Tyler Jones the brand. Because in my life I’m Allison Jones, I’m not Allison Tyler Jones, I’m just Allison Jones. But we’re all working for her. She is not necessarily me. She’s a standard of excellence of work,” and exactly what you said, “how do you make people feel?”
Rudi Marten: That’s what they remember, is how did we make them feel and then how did we make them look in their portraits. You and I can critique an image and be like, “Why on earth did you pose like that? You’re totally not doing her justice with this pose. But she felt beautiful in that, and you made her feel beautiful, and that’s what she keeps.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, for sure. I think it’s helping our clients see themselves in a new way, helping them see, like, “I really do love my family. I really am glad that I had these kids.” Because it’s hard to raise kids, and you get so caught up in the day-to-day. I love that experience to see them see themselves in a new way.
Rudi Marten: What you’ll find is you have to tell them that because even though we may think they know that, you have to remind them of that-
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Rudi Marten: … of kids saying, “Do you know how amazing your parents are?” and telling the parents, “You are wonderful parents. Do you know how amazing your kids are? Look at this. Look how strong he looks here even though he’s seven, but look how strong he is” or “Look how confident she looks over here,” that they are like, “You’re right, we are doing a good job, and this is important to us.”
Allison Tyler Jones: And it’s absolutely genuine, and there’s always something that you can find. Sometimes people will say, “Well, are you just making up stuff?” It’s like, “You don’t have to make it up. If you spend enough time with them, you can see it.’
Rudi Marten: Yes. I would agree, when you first start, I remember feeling I’m being fake, but then I would reflect on it. I’m like, “No, I really felt that.” I had a client, he’s a good friend of ours, and he called it schmoozing. He goes, “Ugh, Clark’s schmoozing them again.” He would just poke fun at it all the time. But I’m like, “That’s genuinely who he is. If you get him out of this camera room and just have dinner with him, he will do the same thing.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Rudi Marten: How amazing you are. You’re doing wonderful things.
Allison Tyler Jones: Two of the best compliments I’ve ever had in my life from another human being have been from your dad.
Rudi Marten: That’s wonderful.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, that’s just who he is. That’s the core of that brand. And so, I think sometimes when we think about our business, we’re thinking, “Okay, what do we want our brand to be, colors, and typography? Oh, we want this to be cool and we want it to look a certain way,” but it’s really how do we want our clients to feel about themselves in the presence of our brand.
Rudi Marten: Yep. Totally.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so what have you changed then business model wise? So you changed from one or two photographers, kind of a higher end boutique as far as what you’re selling, and now you’ve gone to three photographers and more of a volume. Is that right? Tell me about that.
Rudi Marten: Yeah, so we are still high priced, we did not change pricing at all. We are just now high volume also. And so, we can photograph seven families a day. We dedicate an hour to them and take an hour for lunch. They view immediately after their portrait session so we don’t have to make multiple appointments. That seems to be helpful to parents, that is just one two hour section that they’re dedicating to it. We have found that having childcare is very helpful in parents making decisions, so there’s not kids running around the showroom, so that’s been helpful as well.
Rudi Marten: And then I hold my team to specific benchmarks that we have to make. The business, even though it was created as a family business, I say we are a fun group of people to work with, but we operate on purpose. This is not someplace that it’s come and sit and have a good time, it’s, “What did we accomplish today? Who did we influence today?” And so if you came into the office, you would see our booking board. There’s a goal of how many bookings we want each week. There’s a goal of these are how many openings are open next week and how can we fill them. There’s a sales average goal, as well as then moving that into yearly goal and broken into those things as well. Photographers also, even though it’s a creative role, have specific photographing lists that they need to make sure that they’re getting for the sale, as well as are they spending enough time to create a relationship that the people feel special?
Allison Tyler Jones: Tell me again, what do we accomplish today, and who did we influence today?
Rudi Marten: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. Love that. What are the kinds of things that you’re wanting them to shoot? Is there a specific kind of things that you want them to hit?
Rudi Marten: We have it different because we do photograph couples. We have an all-encompassing family, and what I do is within a full family, you’re going to find that there’s different dynamics. So if I do a big family blanket umbrella, inside of that, there’s going to be couples, inside of that there’s going to be children, inside of that there’s going to be grandchildren and different generational. And inside that there’s going to be single parents. And so, those are the different sessions that we focus on. And so, each one has a different shot list basically. With a couple, I’m not going to be doing as many photographs as I would a family of six because a family of six needs to fit still within the allocated time. And with a couple, I still need to photograph enough that they feel that they got value from it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so let’s make sure I’m understanding. So basically what you’re doing is within this family session product line, so to speak, family sessions is the business, that’s an umbrella, and under that there is a different category for each type of family session. So if it’s just me and my husband and we’re older, that’s going to be a family couple session. And then there’s maybe a family generational session or a family nuclear session or whatever. And you have those typed out. And then within each one of those, you have a short list for that.
Rudi Marten: Correct. Because we’re advertising for each one of those inside of the giant scope of everything, so we’ll advertise in a different way. Because my market is a small market that if I just advertise corporate family, it gets ad fatigue very quickly. But if I advertise for couples or families with dogs or just siblings, that then keeps me getting sessions all the time.
Allison Tyler Jones: Interesting. And so are you doing that primarily social media, like the funnel thing?
Rudi Marten: Yeah. Right now everything is Facebook and running through funnels.
Allison Tyler Jones: You’ve been working on that for a really long time. Do you feel like you’ve perfected that because that’s been, what, three or four years?
Rudi Marten: Yeah, I would say that, yeah, we have perfected it. There’s some follow-up sequences that we’re working on now on warming up people so that they’re eager and ready to buy when they come in instead of coming in going, “Oh, I didn’t know that your prices were this” or “I knew you were high price, but I want everything and I can’t afford 12 or 15 or 20,000,” so we can prepare them to be opened up to the conversation, and that they’ve had the conversation with their spouse of, “Hey, I’m wanting to do something.”
Allison Tyler Jones: So if somebody said to you, somebody that’s maybe a solopreneur or somebody that’s been in the business for a while has maybe employee or two and they’re wanting to shoot more, because I think that’s a common thing, for a boutique you’re like, “Well, we go less people, higher dollar, whatever, because we’re going to spend more time,” but let’s just say they wanted to do more, what would be your first suggestion for that looking back?
Rudi Marten: Whether it’s a solopreneur, an artist centric or a… I now call us client centric, so how many clients can we service now, what my vision is. Any of that, all of it comes down to how do we get appointments on the calendar? That’s how you make money as appointments on the calendar. The first thing is, where do leads come from or where am I going to find people? And so, lead generation is one for us. Before we went heavy into social media, that was auctions, relationship with other businesses, mini displays, expos, things like that. We still do some of those, but not as much as we used to. And then when you get into social media, is crafting an irresistible offer that you’re going to get people raising their hands saying, “I’m interested.” That can be anything to complement your portrait session, to complement your portrait session with small product that you’re going to work to upsell.
Rudi Marten: And then the next is you need someone to be calling those leads to get them booked. For us, the biggest increase in growth when I took over, and I’ve been running operations for probably the last 10 years, when we met our business coach from way back then, the biggest growth was getting a dedicated phone person who was just calling these leads and booking them.
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it. You guys work the phones like… Nope, I don’t know anybody else that does what you guys did.
Rudi Marten: Yeah, the phone department, I haven’t let go of that department. I still manage it because it is the lifeblood.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, that’s amazing. So if somebody wanted to look in, dip their toe into the Facebook funnel situation, I know that’s been a hot topic over the last few years, do you have any suggestions of where they might start?
Rudi Marten: There’s lots of groups out there that are talking about it and have helpful information on it. I studied a lot of ClickFunnels books as well as Russell Brunson’s podcast and some of their stuff. The trick is you want to make sure that you adapt it to be brick and mortar, because a lot of when you talk social media advertising is talking digital products, coaching, things like that. And so that’s where you have to mentally go, “Okay, how am I going to put this into brick and mortar?” So an irresistible offer for, let’s say, a coach is completely different than for us because we have tangible product tied to it that costs money. They just have time attached to it.
Rudi Marten: But there’s still things you could do the same of don’t make these seven mistakes the next time you have your picture taken or the next time you have your family portrait taken. I mean, that’s a free ebook just right there that’s collecting leads. But then you have to know, “Okay, what do I do with these leads once they’re collected?” What I found was I would do it and I’m like, “Oh, I have these leads, but I don’t know what I’m going to do with them now.” And so I would encourage first to go, “Okay, I’m going to get leads and this is how I’m going to walk them through my client journey of, okay, if they come from this, how do I get them to over hear, that we eventually get them saying, ‘I am interested in a portrait session with you,’ then we can call them.”
Allison Tyler Jones: You’ve worked with a lot of photographers through the years, as I have I, and I find that everybody’s like, “Oh, how do I get leads? How do I get more leads, or whatever?” It’s like, “Well, if you’re not practiced at calling your own clients, if you aren’t even doing that, more leads is not going to help you. Because if you are averse to talking on the phone or having that conversation with somebody… ” Because sometimes you get leads in and you’re scared and you’re like, “Well, I don’t want to bug people. I don’t want to be salesy. That’s weird.” So if you feel that way, then maybe start with your existing clients. That’s what we do, we’ll call our existing clients and get them booked for the year, make sure we’re checking up on people, and just making sure that you have the right person on the phone. That’s a big one. But if you’re a solopreneur, make sure that you’re comfortable talking about it and asking for that business.
Rudi Marten: Tony Robbins talks about it also, if you’ve ever been to one of his events, when he’s like, “I… ” And he uses some swear words, he’s like, “I created this mother effort.” And he’s like, “This is not the Tony Robbins from 30 years ago. I created this guy to be able to motivate people and move people how I need them to move in order to change their lives.” And so that’s one way. The other way is, okay, I myself, I am not good on the phones. I am not good at doing bookings and doing sales because that’s just not my strength. And so I was like, “Okay, if that’s not my strength, I need to find someone who is good at that.” And so that’s who I hire now, are people who are good at, I’ll even call it, closing. So yeah, we are working with a complimentary session, but I still have to ask for a deposit and talk about pricing, so I have to help them understand the value and close that. And so, there are other people who I’m like, “Okay, good. You’re taking care of that area. I’ll focus on this area.”
Allison Tyler Jones: If you were going to hire somebody, what are specific things that you look for in that person?
Rudi Marten: One is they like being on the phone all day talking about the same thing all the time except for the client is always going to be different. So they have to be willing to follow a script, if not the bullet points, to make sure that we cover specific things. And then, two, that they’re goal oriented, that they want to get through their list of leads and they want bookings versus, well, they’re not sure, and their questions or objections that we all get, that they want to get the booking, that they’re like, “I will overcome this objection.” They have to help them get to come in front of the camera.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. Well, how you have built that, at least as far as I understand, is one conversation that we had maybe a year or so ago, is that your whole team is built around the belief and the importance of every family having family portraits. And so that helps I think somebody on the sales call so that they’re not just like, “Look, this is just another telemarketer. I could be selling water softeners, doesn’t matter.” But no, they’re convinced that having a family portrait makes a difference in a family.
Rudi Marten: Yeah, and I think that’s very important. That is one thing that I really instill in our company culture. I think that that stems from I don’t want any of my team to think this is just a sales call or this is just to make money. What we do matters, and what we do will affect not only this family but their kids’ family and the next generation. So we are, in a sense, what we do going to affect people’s lives for the next 90 years with what we do today. When I can help my team see it like that, they’re like, “Okay, I’ll get on the phones. We got to make sure that we can help influence these families for positive.”
Rudi Marten: And so, we do have regular meetings where I’m sharing testimonials, sharing reviews, sharing what someone wrote to us or told us when they picked up their portraits so they can all hear the good of what we’re doing. Do we get negative reviews, yes, especially in this day and age where it’s so easy to just complain without being face-to-face with someone.
Allison Tyler Jones: Sure.
Rudi Marten: I think when you are on purpose and making a difference, the more you do that, the more target comes onto your back. And so that’s just part of business today, sadly.
Allison Tyler Jones: One quick topic, side note, what are you doing to get reviews? Are you asking for Google reviews or that sort of thing from your clients, or do you have a process for that?
Rudi Marten: We don’t specifically ask for Google reviews, but with a delivered order is basically an exit interview card of, “On a scale of one to five of these different areas, how did we do? Anything else you’d like to tell us?” Anything below a four gets addressed in that department. “Okay, what happened? How did we go wrong?” And then anytime they write something amazing, we will reach out and say, “Thank you so much. Our team loved hearing that. Would you mind going on social media and just giving us a review with that?”
Allison Tyler Jones: Love that. I knew you’d have a process.
Rudi Marten: It’s like an interview before they give the review, which helps.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and especially I love that you give them that chance to respond. And then if it’s lower than four, is that what you said? Then you’re taking it-
Rudi Marten: If they write comments of, “This was bad” or “I didn’t like this,” we call them and say, “We appreciate you telling us this. We are looking into this because that’s not what we want. And so we appreciate you being honest with us. We’re taking good look into this to get it fixed.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I love that. Well, huge changes. You are one of the most intentional people I know. You’re very focused.
Rudi Marten: Oh, thanks.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, you’re very focused. But the thing that I think is compelling about what you’ve done is you’ve taken some things that would historically have changed the brand, changed a high-end artist centric brand, historically that would, “Okay, we’re going to go Facebook funnels, we’re going to go volume, we’re going to shoot seven sessions a day.” Now that sounds like a whole different business, but really you’ve just replicated faster already that excellence.
Rudi Marten: Yeah. All I did was I took the schedule my dad and I were doing, and as I’m focusing on families, it would be a one-hour family session and then usually a one-hour view and order and was like, “Okay, how can we just get these back to back to back?” I figured out that, okay, to do that, I have to be indoors where the lights are set and we’re not moving and I have to stick to one background. That’s how I was efficiently looking at it. Because my dad built his brand as outdoor Photographer, beautiful landscapes with your family in them. While that is wonderful, it’s all contingent on weather, it’s contingent on the heat. It’s exhausting. It’s hard carrying around lights, all of that. And so as we started moving into this indoor model, I tested it in the fall because I’m like, “Okay, fall, everyone’s going to want their outdoor pictures for that, and so let’s just charge a premium for it.” So I said, “Okay, yeah, we will photograph you outdoors on these days, but it’s an additional $150.”
Rudi Marten: Nobody took it. I had four weekends blocked for outdoor sessions, and nobody took it for the 150. They’re like, “Oh, well, I’ll just do the indoor then.” After I was like, “We’re just doing indoor then.”
Allison Tyler Jones: I know. Yeah. I call that the session fee strategy, is that you just put a tax on what you don’t want to do anymore, and then people generally are like, “Actually, really… ” When they think about it, they really don’t want to do that. They want to come and it’s easy and it’s climate controlled and all the things.
Rudi Marten: Exactly.
Allison Tyler Jones: I come into you, you shoot the family session, and then we immediately do a one-hour view and order, how are you turning that around that quick to be able to have it ready to view? Do they go away for a minute, what happens?
Rudi Marten: Yeah, so the photographer walks them out and says, “Go ahead and take a look around the gallery.” The salesperson usually at that time is free from the family before they step out, ask if they would like any refreshments. The family then is looking around the gallery, looking at product. The photographer culls their own images. I have specific parameters on, “I need you to do this many images for a family of this size because she has to show this many.” So the goal is to sell a wall portrait with a portrait box that has at least 10 images in it. So that pushes it up to about a $4,000 sale. That’s what the goal is always. And so, once that culling has happened, and the goal is within seven minutes to have that done, so they’re quickly moving through it, supposed to then being showing on a typical family no more than 30 images. And so that then is handed to the salesperson where then the family walks in, the salesperson is seeing the images for the first time in the opening slideshow.
Allison Tyler Jones: Wow, that is tight.
Rudi Marten: It’s very tight. But we didn’t think it could have happened until we tested it. The first person to test it was my mom, where I said, “Can I test something?” And she’s like, “What do you mean?” I’m like, “I would like to see how you sell without seeing the images before it and you don’t cull them. And she’s like, “All right, let’s try it.” And so for the day we did it, and her sales average was the same, and I said, “If you can do it, then that’s the new standard.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, that’s amazing. Well, I think the lesson that I’m taking away from this, I have four pages of notes now, you’ve inspired me, but I think the lesson is that why not try it, right?
Rudi Marten: Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Because you’re motivated and you’re an executor, but I really think that your genius, Rudi, is why not? Could we? Rather than this won’t work here, freaking Billings, Montana, there’s no people there-
Rudi Marten: Yeah, totally.
Allison Tyler Jones: They have to drive nine hours to get anywhere.
Rudi Marten: It’s incredible what we do. You’re exactly right, try it. Don’t assume it won’t work. That’s the biggest thing that… In fact, that’s one of our core values is being a problem solver, come with solutions. And so anytime they’re like, “Well, that won’t work,” I’m like, “We’re going to try it though.” So right now we’re testing shaving five minutes off of each session so that I can train them to be a 45-minute sessions so I can get three more sessions in a day. They’re like, “What?” And I’m like, “Let’s just try it. I want you to take five minutes off your time, and can you still get the list of images we need and still make them feel special?” And I’m like, “We’re going to try it for the next… ” For March is what we’re doing. I have one photographer who’s doing amazing at it. The other is like, “I’m just not doing it.” And I’m like, “I just have to come around and coach her a little bit.” They’re proving it can be done.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, and really, because of what your core values are, you’re never going to shortchange the client. You’re never-
Rudi Marten: No.
Allison Tyler Jones: That’s where the stop is, that’s where the line is. The line is if the clients are not being cared for and not being taken care of. Sometimes I feel like the longer the session goes on, the more we wear them out.
Rudi Marten: And the more decisions they have to make then when they view all the images.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Right. Exactly. Well, I know for sure that sometimes just shooting longer… I’m usually shooting the longest when I’m the least confident because you’re like, “Okay, I’m out of my element. When I’m on my game, I have shorter sessions because I just know what I’m getting. I can see it. I know that I got it, and I’m just firing on all cylinders.
Rudi Marten: Well, and you taught me this, was we photographed with purpose. This isn’t just to click the camera. Is this going in an album or is this going on the wall? What is this for? And that’s also what I tell my photographers to tell the clients is, “We’re going to work through this. We photograph with purpose, so we’re not just going to photograph to photograph so you have too many decisions to make, and you’re frustrated that you can’t get everything. So we’re going to work with purpose.” And so that’s what we work with. So obviously, a little kid, shorter amount of time. We’re not going to get 45 minutes with that kid.
Allison Tyler Jones: Nope.
Rudi Marten: With a big family, and this is something my dad always taught was, “We’ve got a big family, so the faster we can move around to get everyone through, the more images you’ll have.” But this is what we have to work with.” And so they were on the same page where they’re working with us because they know if they drag their feet they’re not going to get as many images.
Allison Tyler Jones: Make them part of the solution. Help me help you.
Rudi Marten: Yep.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. I love that. Well, you’re an example to one and all, and I think it’s just so fun to what you are.
Rudi Marten: I am the result of wonderful people who have come before me and that I’ve learned from you and others in the industry that I’m like, “Okay, how are you doing that? And how does it work so smooth there?” And then I go, “Okay, well, let’s bring it back and put it into our model but make it ours to work for us.”
Allison Tyler Jones: No, you’re such a good example of that. I love to watch the change and the evolution of that. I think what I’m taking away from this the most is how do we make them feel-
Rudi Marten: Always.
Allison Tyler Jones: … we have at that core of your culture, and that’s communicated to your entire team always, and that you’re doing things on purpose. And then why not? Let’s just try and see this one little thing. You’re not changing everything all at the same time. That’s another thing that I’m bad at… Well, I was bad at till Ivan came into the business and he doesn’t let me do it anymore, but I would want to change everything every year. I think creatives are famous for that, but you’ll go into one little narrow area and like, “Let’s just try to do that one thing.” And you’ll keep ticking away at that until it’s smoothed out the way that you like it, and then you’ll go to something else. Is that fair?
Rudi Marten: Totally, and it’s from learning… Because I used to be change the whole thing, upset the fruit basket, and it just caused more problems. I would get upset, I’m like, “How come you guys can’t keep up with me on this change? This is great. It’s going to be so wonderful.” And so I have learned that it’s usually one to two things that I’m like, “This is what I want you to work on this week, and this is what I’m going to be looking for at the end of the week that I see this change.” And then when I am talking about adding three more sessions a day, it’s like, “Okay, what are the baby steps to get there, and how do I get company buy-in or employee buy-in?” And that’s with small steps to get them comfortable a little bit, a little more comfortable, a little more comfortable. What do you know? In 60 days, we’ve totally changed that whole system.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, that’s amazing. And so is every day shooting or do you have certain days that you shoot?
Rudi Marten: Yeah, so we now are open seven days a week. Families are only on the weekends and children are Monday through Thursday. We also have couples that are Monday through Thursday also. Those are the two types of sessions that are easier to fill weekdays. Families always seem to need a weekend.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay. I love it. Amazing. Well, thank you so much.
Rudi Marten: Oh yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: Is there any words of advice, any pearls as you’re leaving for people that maybe are a little bit newer or struggling?
Rudi Marten: Sure. I would say, I’m taking myself back even 15 years and listening to something like this, it would be like, “Oh my gosh, I so want that. How come I can’t have that tomorrow?” This did not happen in a year, this is a process. It is nothing that happens boom, open the business, and this is what we have. Even though we’re talking about these are things that we’re doing, with growth and with any business, there’s still the growth pains of employees or team going, “I don’t want to do that,” or them not performing at a certain level or upset clients or something very small and fixable, but they just want to complain. That’s all part of business, and you’re going to have that. So what I would encourage you is accept the hard things. Understanding is a part of everyday life.
Rudi Marten: I had a mentor who said, “If I don’t have someone upset with me or angry at us at least three times in a day, we’re not doing things right. We’re not making changes or making movements.” And so, that’s really what I’ve come to, is when they’re like, “Oh, we got a negative review,” I’m like, “Okay, that’s my one today. I accept it. We got it. Let’s see how we can fix it.” But it’s no longer my day is totally ruined because of this one thing. It’s like, “Okay, we’ll keep moving.” And focus on the difference you’re making and why you’re doing it. Because what I always look at, and then when I talk to my team when they’re like, “We’d like to discontinue this session” or “We don’t like this.” I’m like, “Okay, so if we don’t do that, how many kids will not have a family portrait in their home? How many kids are we going to steal this possible encouragement that they’ll go on to do amazing things because this family portrait empowers them and helps them understand they belong to something really important? Is that worth that trade-off?” And that’s the passion that I have for that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, I love that. Rather than, “Where are we going to make up that money?” it’s “Where are those kids going to get the-
Rudi Marten: And the money follows. Yes, we have financial goals, but the first thing is how do we influence, how do we make a difference, and then the money comes up and always fills in.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes. Well, and I think that your point about hard things and things coming up, no matter where you’re at, you’re going to have those things happening. It’s those problems that actually become the solutions for your bigger, better thing later.
Rudi Marten: Absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: Don’t you think?
Rudi Marten: Yeah. I was researching SpaceX with Elon Musk and how it came about and everything. SpaceX was created by Elon Musk because he so modeled the astronauts who went to the moon. He loved them and wanted to be like that and to forward that. His biggest critics are the astronauts that went to the moon. They went in front of Congress and said, “Space should not be privatized, and this is a mistake.” This interviewer was talking to him and he said, “How does that make you feel?” And he started to tear up. And he goes, “I wish they could just see what we do.” I’m like, “Even this billionaire who’s changing the world, his heroes are criticizing him.” And so I’m like, “This is just part of life.”
Allison Tyler Jones: Anytime you put something out there or you try something, you’re going to have pushback from somebody, but it’s how you deal with that. The safest thing is just to stay on the sidelines and say, “Well, it won’t work here. It won’t work in my town.” You’ve proven that that is not the case. So thank you so much. I appreciate you-
Rudi Marten: Absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: I think this one so inspiring. I’m so excited for people to listen to this.
Rudi Marten: It’s a pleasure. It’s always wonderful to see you and to talk with you, Allison.
Allison Tyler Jones: You too. Tell your mom and dad I said hi, and give them a big hug for me.
Rudi Marten: Okay. Bye.
Allison Tyler Jones: All right, thanks.
Allison Tyler Jones: The entire reason I started this podcast is because I am convinced I have the best job in the world. Being a portrait photographer fulfills so many needs. It’s just meaningful. I get to be with amazing clients and their darling kids, and it’s just so rewarding in so many ways. I know that there are so many talented, amazing photographers out there that could be making a better living for their family if they just tweaked a few things in their business. So if you know somebody who’s struggling or that you know this podcast could help, please share it with them. Wherever you listen to your podcast, hit that little share link and send it to them, because we want everybody to do better. And if you have a minute and you can give us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you’re listening to your podcast, it makes a huge difference in getting us exposure so that more and more photographers can learn how to have better businesses. So share and review if you have a minute, I’d so appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here.
Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com and on Instagram, @do.the.rework.