Recorded: Welcome to The Rework with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers to uniquely brand, profitably price, and confidently sell their best work. Allison has been doing just that for the last 15 years, and she’s proven that it’s possible to create unforgettable art and run a portrait business that supports your family and your dreams. All it takes is a little rework. Episodes will include interviews with experts from in and outside of the photo industry, many workshops and behind the scenes secrets that Allison uses in her portrait studio every single day. She will challenge your thinking and inspire your confidence to create a profitable, sustainable portrait business you love through continually refining and reworking your business. Let’s do the rework.
Allison Tyler Jones: Hi friends, and welcome back to The Rework. When I DMed Anna Kraft on Instagram about having her on the podcast, I had in mind exactly how this conversation was going to go. When we actually got into recording the podcast, the direction this conversation took, took both of us by surprise. Anna is a photographer from Central Texas and she has invested in top rate education for her portrait business over the years, as many of you have. What I found during this conversation with her is that many of us along our journey lose ourselves in listening to so many different voices that we can’t hear our own voice anymore. And so this kind of turned into a mentoring/coaching call that I think you’ll find interesting because we’ve all been there, we’ve all looked at what other successful photographers are doing, and thought if I just do that, that will be the thing that brings me success.
Allison Tyler Jones: But ultimately, we’re a market of one, and nobody can be us, and we can’t be anyone else. We can take pieces of what makes other people successful, strategies, processes, and incorporate those into our own business, but everything needs to go through a filter of ourselves, of who we are and how we want to do business, and how we truly want to roll out what it is that we do for our very best clients and the type of people that we want to work with. So I think you’ll find this conversation interesting. It is a bit of a mess honestly. We start one place, you can tell that I’m going along the road and then all of a sudden it’s like we’re going to take a turn here and I’m going to be really honest and talk with her about some things that I think are important for her, but they’re not just important for Anna, they’re important for all of us. Things that I’ve learned the hard way, things that I think will help you. So enjoy and let’s do it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so today’s guest I’m so honored to have in the podcast studio is Miss Anna Kraft. Anna is a photographer in Central Texas and she has been making some bold moves and changes in her business, and we have been Instagram friends for a while now. And so she’s agreed to join me today to talk about some of the changes that she’s made. And so welcome, Anna. I’m so glad you’re here.
Anna Kraft: Thank you so much.
Allison Tyler Jones: So Anna, give our listeners an idea. Just tell us how long you’ve been in the business, what you’ve done up till now, and give us an idea of where you’re headed.
Anna Kraft: Sure. I would say I’ve officially been in the business since about 2014 or 2015, although photography was a hobby, if not a glorified hobby for me before that. So many of us grew up in a digital age where suddenly we had access to digital cameras and we didn’t have to understand really what we were doing. It was a lot of trial and error. So a lot of us became hobbyist photographers, and that was definitely me until I decided to go pro in 2014.
Allison Tyler Jones: Love that. So you started out shooting what?
Anna Kraft: Well, my father, which because I was a good girl and thought that I should listen to my father, told me that I should try to start making money doing weddings because weddings brought in a lot of business and they were such good money and he wanted me to start an events thing or whatever. And when you are a young 20 something, charging $800 for a wedding feels like a lot of money.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. For sure.
Anna Kraft: Moving your prices to $1,500, that just feels astronomical.
Allison Tyler Jones: Who do you think you are?
Anna Kraft: Right. It was like, oh my gosh, can I command this? I don’t know. And so when I would get a $1,500 wedding in 2012 and have to pay my out of pocket to stay somewhere and get a car, I thought that I was making bank. And at some point, I began hearing about IPS and Sue Bryce. It was through Creative Live because I found Creative Live and I started watching some of their videos, and it was through them that I found Sue Bryce and I started watching her process in the way of doing it.
Allison Tyler Jones: And IPS. In-Person Sales.
Anna Kraft: Yes, thank you. Yes, IPS. In-Person Sales and I decided to start trying it. My husband and I got married in 2015 January and got pregnant immediately, which was not the plan. Everything just happened that year. It was so intense. We were living in a little RV and then he got a job as a pastor within six months of us being married and finding out we were pregnant. So we moved out of our RV into an apartment in a new town. He took over a church plant. It was insane. And during this time, I wasn’t working because I was done at the dance company where I was working, and it was too much. And my husband really was like, “I think that the next step for you is to go into photography. I think you need to make that your thing.” There was some questions, maybe I should go back to school, should I try and pursue this degree?
Anna Kraft: And he was like, “You love this. This is your thing. You should really do this.” And for me, that was the validation that I needed to go, okay, I can do this. I’m going to throw myself in full time. And so during that time where I was pregnant, I began rebranding. I began watching all of the Sue Bryce videos I could get my hands on. During that time, Julia Kelleher had her 40 day studio bootcamp that was going live on Creative Live. And so I would travel to the local coffee shop because we didn’t have internet, and I would sit there for an hour and a half and watch her every morning at the coffee shop. And so I just threw myself into rebranding.
Allison Tyler Jones: Education.
Anna Kraft: Just everything and just soaking it all in. And later that year, I had my first sale. I had donated a gift certificate, and the family came in and they got their free portrait, and they also bought $500 of other portraits as well. And that was-
Allison Tyler Jones: So exciting.
Anna Kraft: And that was enough. I was able to put gas in my tank and that was all I was hoping for. I was like, even if I bank just $20, I just need to put gas in my tank on the way home. And I was so thrilled. And my next sale was the following spring, and it was for $3,000. And that was like, I can do this, I can do this. I can make this happen. And so I’ve never looked back from there. I’ve not considered going back into weddings. It’s only been like, how do I get better and better and better? And at first my heart, because this is who I am. I love fashion. I love a really curated home. I really wanted to photograph big, bold fashion families because as a Christian, my heart is all about family. It’s all about when you love someone that love is procreative, you create from that love.
Anna Kraft: And I think so many women and so many families are not supported well. And there’s so much hate that goes out to women who’ve had more than one or two children. I was looking on Instagram recently and someone was saying it should be illegal to have more than two children. And I’m like, the stupidity out there, I was like this is horrible. So I want to support families. And so my goal was to create these just gorgeous family portraits that made people proud to be parents, and that instilled a sense of pride in them.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.
Anna Kraft: I think that what I’ve come to realize is that’s not a lot of people’s style, and I felt like I was constantly pushing against the flow. I was constantly trying to make a brand happen that people weren’t really interested in, at least not where I live. Maybe flown more in New York or LA but I began mentoring with Jeff Lubin two years ago, and he is for people who may not know, but he is a veteran of this business. He’s been doing this for 30 plus years. He retired his Washington DC, Virginia-based studio. He retired and sold it, but now he’s actually back working in the marketing for the studio, and he’s doing mentorships with a handful of students. And I’m very fortunate and very thankful to be one of them. And so what I’m doing now is I’ve rebranded and leveled up again, and I’ve realized that people don’t come in for portraits more than a few times in their lifetime.
Anna Kraft: And the goal is to create something timeless, something that is classic that won’t go out of style. And I think that with that sort of magazine look, unless you’re doing it kind of your way, which is really clean, really modern, you can’t really date it. It could have been done in the nineties, it could have been done in the eighties. It’s very classic. But once you start, I feel like trying to emulate Annie Leibovitz it might begin to date a little depending on the photographer’s individual style, whereas photographing on a classic blue background or using some of these really gorgeous, more traditional backdrops, those are not going to go out of style as much, and people are going to be more willing to invest more money in something larger that is a statement piece that they’ll be able to hang onto for a long time. So that’s kind of from point A to where I am now as far as my trajectory.
Allison Tyler Jones: Right. Well, the thing that I think is interesting, because I know you’re definitely not alone, there’s so many photographers that have… Sue Bryce is a frigging genius. We can all agree on that. She’s a master teacher. Amazing. I love listening to her. And I think just you’re a student, you’re a learner. You love to learn and absorb. And so you’ve taken those lessons and you didn’t say, “Well, that won’t work in my town.” You’ve said, “How could it work?” You’ve applied it and then you’ve had some success. You’ve had sales, you’ve had things, and now you’re evolving through that looking at your current market where you’re at, combining it with what you love, which is photography and families. And doing it in a way that can be supported by where you are. I think it’s interesting. The reason that prompted me to call or to DM you was that you had archived your brand on Instagram. You had put a pause on that and then are now doing this more classical portraiture.
Anna Kraft: Yes. And it was creating some confusion because I was having, one of the things that I’ve been doing with Jeff is for a marketing strategy, donating certificates to local charities. And often when you put in your information, they’ll ask for your Instagram handle or they’ll just search your name and try to find you. And what was happening was they were finding this other brand, and they were screenshotting images from my first brand and using them for this new certificate. And that was creating issues with the people who were buying the certificate because there would be one style that was being shown to them. But then when they got on the phone with me and they would see a very different style.
Anna Kraft: Obviously it’s still me, so there’s still, there’s nuances there that are still mine, but different backdrops, different sort of more formal. And so like, oh, this is not what I saw originally. So I decided to pin that post and make it really clear. But at the same time, I do like having more of a relaxed conversation with the people who I’m around with past clients and maybe people who never became clients, and I have a lot of hobby courses, so I decided to keep the account, but wanted to make it clear that this is not any longer what I’m doing.
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it. So on that post where you said we’re archiving this brand, you said you’re not taking any new clients, it’s only people that are existing clients that you’re going to shoot that style for.
Anna Kraft: If they want. Yeah, I’ve had a couple people who’ve come back and they’ve said, “Oh, I want to add to this collection or do this.” So if they wanted to do that, I would absolutely do that for them. It’s just an extra setup. It’s not a part of my normal process. And so I would go through the old ropes for them if they’ve already done it with me.
Allison Tyler Jones: Got it. So now how’s it going with the new?
Anna Kraft: I feel like there have been some really good moments. There’ve been some really hard moments. There’ve been-
Allison Tyler Jones: Tell me about the hard and then tell me about the good.
Anna Kraft: Okay. Okay, so I’ve made a lot of mistakes. Jeff is very specific when he tells you how to go through this process of marketing, and he says, for example, you need to collect credit card information upfront when you book one of these winners in. And I wasn’t doing that, and it wasn’t because I disagreed with it, but more because I wasn’t quite sure how to incorporate that. I’ve never done that. It’s usually been they just pay a fee and I never collected credit card information to have on file. But then I realized pretty quickly after talking to him, I had a couple of people just cancel. I would arrive at the studio set up for a shoot and people would just not show up for their session. And I was like, “Jeff, what is happening?” He’s like, “Well, are you collecting credit card information?” I was like, “No.”
Anna Kraft: He was like, “Well, that’s why.” And so for example, that was a learning moment for me. So I found a way to make that a part of my workflow. I’ve found, I think a big thing for me that I’ve just discovered recently is the way I did it before, I would charge a session fee and then charge per product. And normally by the time someone came to me, they knew what they wanted. They had a pretty good idea of what they were going to spend. There’s a statistic that says that someone will see you seven times before they book with you, but I’m circumventing this by donating. So people who’ve never heard of me are winning certificates and maybe have no idea what this entails. So what I’m finding is that a lot of people are coming in and I’m getting aced, which is basically where they come in and they don’t upgrade and they don’t buy anything else. And previously with my sales techniques, basically all I had to do in the salesroom was sit back and let the images sell themselves.
Anna Kraft: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had the fathers crying during the sales session, and I love it so much. It makes me so happy. They love their family so much, they always get to feel like they’re a part of it, a part of the photography experience. And so I just love it when there’s emotion and they’re like, “Oh, we want them all.” And that is really, really precious to me. But it’s a different thing having someone who didn’t know you from Adam and they won a gift certificate and they’re just coming in wanting their free-
Allison Tyler Jones: For that thing.
Anna Kraft: They just want that one thing. And so I’m having to learn a different technique of selling. So that’s my conversation with Jeff right now actually is like, how do I do this? How do I prepare them differently? Because it’s a different conversation with them than with people who are coming in knowing that they’re going to invest.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, are you liking it? Are you loving working in this way?
Anna Kraft: I do enjoy it because what I’m doing now is I am putting more people on one day. With the Sue Bryce thing, it’s all about the experience and the emotions and dedicating a half day to a woman, which is a lot of fun, but it’s not always the best return on investment, especially if they decide not to buy anything, which has happened a couple of times. It’s not super often, but it’s happened. And there’s a lot of time that goes into the hair and makeup and then the editing to prepare. Whereas for the way I’m doing it now, it’s very in and out. There’s an hour session, which I try not to max out because I stack them one after the other. It’s five people per day. And I’ll do the session with them, and then I’ll schedule them really quickly, either 10 days or three days out for their appointment, for their selection appointment. I’ll do minimal editing. I’m not looking to perfect and do all of the work. I am notorious for spending way too much time editing.
Allison Tyler Jones: Common problem.
Anna Kraft: Oh my gosh, that’s a wormhole. So I’m saving a lot of time. Right now I’m needing to focus on my sales and the technical aspects of that, and I do enjoy photographing in this more traditional way. At first, I was standoffish to it. I was like, I don’t know if that’s really my style. I’m much more like fashion and edgy, but I did my family in this traditional style, and I had us all pose. Me and my three sons posed in this way. And it was beautiful. And I was so happy with how it turned out that I wanted to give that to other people. I was like, this is going to last for my entire life. This isn’t going to go out of style. This is going to be something that I cherish of me and my three sons for the rest of my life.
Anna Kraft: And so I think there is a place for traditionality, especially in the upper class echelon, when you start talking about the people who can afford Bentleys and Rolls Royces, whether or not they drive them or not, but the people who are in that, they want to be in and out. They don’t want to be spending a ton of time. They want to get something that looks great and beautiful and perfect the first time and get it done. They have busy lives and they want something that is going to be classic and technically perfect. And so that’s what I want to provide. My heart has always been to be the best of the best, not because I can say, oh, I’m the best of the best, but because I genuinely want to provide an amazing product to people, I want to provide what I would want for my house. And so that’s my heart.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that. It sounds like you just completely changed your business model.
Anna Kraft: Other than doing IPS, pretty much, I’ve stripped down quite a bit. No more hair and makeup, although I do recommend hair and makeup artists. So here’s what I’ve done. I use Dubsado as my CRM, and so when they… Let’s see, hold on, let me back up. So I start out with a certificate, a $2,000 certificate that I mail.
Allison Tyler Jones: And these are going to auctions?
Anna Kraft: These are going to auctions. There’s a lady who collects these for me, these auctions that are in my area, and she reaches out to them and gets the ball rolling. And then I mail the certificate to the winner of these auctions. Sometimes I might have a couple a month, sometimes I might have 10 a month that I’m mailing out these certificates. I mail out a certificate and a booklet of my work. Now on the certificate, there’s a link to register. It’s like, go to annakraftfineart.com and register your certificate here. Once they register it online, it goes into my pipeline in Dubsado. So that form is actually a Dubsado form. So then it sends them a link to schedule a consultation with me. And so from then on, they’re in a workflow and then I can automate my email to send them things like upload your wall photos to put so that I can show you what it’ll look like in your home.
Anna Kraft: It’ll send them the address, the links for hair and makeup artists, and it’ll do all of that automatically. And that’s been really important for me because you just can’t keep emailing people over and over and you forget and you don’t. It’s hard to keep track of. So the Dubsado CRM has been really great for me in automating all that. So then after that, we have their session and I’ve been just recommending everyone wear traditional darker colors, navy or black or gray are beautiful, maybe an accent color, like blue or red. And then we have the session. And then-
Allison Tyler Jones: Let me back you up for just one second. So on the consultation part of it, that’s my favorite part. What are you doing with that? What does your consultation look like?
Anna Kraft: Yeah, so I will get on there and I will begin saying, “Great to meet you. How did you win the certificate?” We’ll chat a bit and then I will explain to them what the certificate does and does not cover, but I will tell them that it’s a $2,000 credit so they can use it to upgrade if they want. And so I always preface with that and give them… I get a chance to know them. I ask, “Who’s your family? What ages are we talking about?” And I try to get a feel for how they feel about their family, how close they are, what it is that they want to capture. Steve Saporito has a really great course on this and on connecting emotionally with your clients. And I’m halfway between that and also halfway between Bradford Rowley saying keep it non-emotional, keep it prestige and not personal.
Anna Kraft: And so I’m halfway between those points right now trying to, because the Steve Saporito connecting with them emotionally works really well for me and my other brand. And so trying to transition more to Bradford Rowley’s you are the expert. They don’t want warm and fuzzies. They want perfection. And so I’m actually trying to figure out how do I transition that? What are the words that I use to express that? How do I say things in a way that is more prestigious and more grandeurous? I’m still figuring that out.
Allison Tyler Jones: It’s interesting. I think that you have really good instincts yourself, and you’ve learned from a lot of different people that are well-known in this industry and have had really good success for themselves. And I don’t even know if I’m going to include this in the recording. I honestly think you probably know better than a lot of the people that you’ve learned from.
Anna Kraft: I don’t know about that. When my bank account is reflecting that, I’ll let you know.
Allison Tyler Jones: No, no, I do think that truly, I think that you have a visual sense and your messaging, it’s very interesting to talk to you because we might just scrap this. I don’t know that I’m seriously, I don’t know that I’m going to put this out there because I just feel like really strongly for you as a fellow photographer and a fellow woman, I think that you have learned from a lot of people, but you Anna, you have an innate sense of beauty and visual and I think that you’re listening to a lot of different people and I think that’s maybe why it hasn’t hit for you because you know what I’m saying?
Anna Kraft: Absolutely. And so that’s part of the reason that I started mentoring with Jeff and he told me the same thing because I was telling him these different things that I had listened to and where I was. And he’s like, “You’re listening to a lot of different people.” And I think I had built a brand that was pretty good, I think that I had merged because I’m not really a touchy feely person like Sue Bryce, that’s really not me. I’m just like, oh, just cut to the chase.
Allison Tyler Jones: But you are a lover and you love your kids.
Anna Kraft: I am.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so I guess what I’m saying is I’m listening and I’m seeing these threads and I really believe that the only way that you can be truly successful, I think people can make money, but successful in that I’m skipping to work every day. I love what I do. It is fulfilling my soul on every level. And it’s amazing. It’s still hard work and we have to do it. So that cuts it by about half, but you’re going and it’s truly you. And that is you’re threading the needle. You’re learning this stuff, but you’re putting it through your own filter, your Anna filter. And so I have the ATJ filter, so I’m having parts of this, but when somebody says to me prestige and oh, it’s got to be, you got to talk this fancy way. I’m like, I don’t talk like that. I’m not that person. I have people riding up in Bentley’s in my parking lot, but where we intersect is that we are irrationally in love with our families and we love beautiful art on our walls.
Allison Tyler Jones: We like it in a certain way. And so you are going to find those people. You don’t have to be Sue Bryce. You don’t have to be Steve Saporito. You don’t have to be Jeff Lubin, you don’t have to be Bradford Rowley. You don’t have to be any of these people. You have such a strong visual sense yourself and you have really good wording and really good messaging. And I think that you need to spend a day in a hotel room alone.
Anna Kraft: Not listening to anybody.
Allison Tyler Jones: Listening to Anna, of all these things that I’ve learned, what is just totally me? Because you’re describing, I can look at everything that you’ve just said. I know what you’re talking about because I’ve heard many of these people talk. I know some of them, but all of that still has to go through my filter.
Anna Kraft: Right.
Allison Tyler Jones: If you’re a portrait photographer, you know the next few months are going to be crazy. This is our busy season and how to make the most of that busy season is to make sure that our client communication is in order, that we are not having clients showing up with the wrong clothing, that we are not having clients shocked in our sales appointments by our pricing and needing to go home and measure or going home and asking their husband, and then sales burning down and our client’s not getting what they need and we not being able to build a sustainable business. So how are we going to make sure that this season is the most successful that it possibly can be? Well, it starts by getting on the same page with your clients so that nothing is left to chance. And how I’ve done this is that I’ve spent the last 13 years revising my own internal consultation form, which by the way, you can download the consultation form that I use in my business absolutely free.
Allison Tyler Jones: But I realized after tweaking that form for about 13 years, that I needed something more. And it wasn’t just a pretty brochure and it wasn’t a price list with no context because we all know you can send a price list to somebody and they’re still shocked by the price because they never looked at it or they have no idea what those prices even mean. It’s happened to all of us. What I realized is I needed a single printed piece for my client to take away with them that would leave nothing to chance and that it would allow me to educate my clients about the price range of my products. It would help them to understand what we would and wouldn’t be shooting for during their portrait session, actually creating a game plan for what is it that we’re actually going to be shooting for and let’s prioritize that.
Allison Tyler Jones: And then also something that would allow the clients to feel confident about selecting the clothing for their session and a printed piece that would allow them to share with their spouse and be able to put together the game plan for their session. So I needed it to be part brochure, part getting ready guide, part last minute checklist and part consultation form, because my consultation form was internal. I was keeping that form, but I wanted this printed piece to go with my clients and I wanted it to be sexy and good looking and that they felt completely and totally cared for. So I wanted all of this in a single booklet that the client would take with them at the end of their consultation. Now I’ve been using this, I created it about five years ago. It’s called the ATJ Game Plan Booklet, and I started off by using it in my studio and I’ve been revising it for the last five years.
Allison Tyler Jones: And now for the first time ever, I’m offering it to the Rework community to use in your portrait studio. So what’s included in that in this course, it’s a little mini course, not a big long course. There’s a video lesson with me on how to use the Game Plan Booklet in your consultation. You will also have a video recording of an actual client consultation with me and a client using the booklet in real time. And then you’ll have layered PSD files of the Game Plan Booklet that we use in our studio every day as well as a PDF version of the latest and greatest ATJ consultation form. So all of that is included for just a one-time payment of 295, just 295 to completely change the way that you interact with your clients, the information that they have, how taken care of they feel by making things transparent to them, putting together the game plan for the session so that everybody’s on the same page. We all know what we’re shooting for, we know how much it’s going to cost, they know what to wear. Everybody’s on the same page.
Allison Tyler Jones: This is the document, this is the booklet that has changed my business and I want you to have it too if it works for you. So go to dotherework.com/gameplan, that’s dotherework.com/gameplan and download that booklet and start using it in your business this busy season. I know that the Game Plan Booklet will be a game changer for your business.
Anna Kraft: And I think that’s certainly where I am, and I am trying to be very protective of myself and of my art and how I see, and that was why I had some pushback with Jeff at first because I was like, oh, this isn’t like… His style is not my style yet. I believe that there are techniques that are proven to that are traditional and classic, and they’re going to flatter anybody. And so I can apply those. It’s going to stretch me, but I can apply those in my style and create something classic and beautiful that everyone is still going to love and it won’t look like Jeff’s and it won’t look like Bradford’s.
Allison Tyler Jones: But I disagree on some of the things that I disagree with, I’m not going to say who it is, but this idea that these rich people, this whole huge conglomerate rich people, whoever that is, that they’re busy and they don’t have time and they don’t want to invest in emotion. I absolutely disagree. Wholeheartedly. If you are talking about an aspirational, some tool guy that’s sitting reading the Rob report and wanting to do like, well, my picture’s going to be bigger than his picture, I don’t even want that client.
Anna Kraft: Right. Sure.
Allison Tyler Jones: I don’t even want that client. That’s not who I want to deal with. Now there are plenty of guys out there that want to deal with that client all day long and they’re going to sell them one thing and they’re never going to see them again. I also disagree with people are only going to do this two to three times in their life. Bull crap. They’re coming every year.
Anna Kraft: Really?
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Anna Kraft: Okay. Can I ask what those sales look like for you, Allison?
Allison Tyler Jones: My sales averages are for families are $16,000.
Anna Kraft: And they’re coming every year?
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes.
Anna Kraft: Oh my God.
Allison Tyler Jones: Every client doesn’t come every year. I have clients that come every other, every three years. Some years they spend 7,000. Some years. Our average, our sales average for a family portrait session right now, the last time I checked was $16,000.
Anna Kraft: Wow.
Allison Tyler Jones: We’re doing about 100 to 120 sessions a year. And then now that’s including 100, 120 is including commercial like headshots or whatever. And those aren’t that high of an average, but I don’t even shoot those. I have somebody else that shoots those. So I’m just saying I disagree with some of, because this model, and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it because there are people that love to work that way, but I’ve spoken with one of these people, I’m not going to say who, and said, “Okay, how much of your business is referral? Zero. How much of it is repeat? Zero.” I don’t want to work that hard. I want relationships with my clients and I want to watch their kids grow up because that’s soul satisfying to me. Do you know what I’m saying? But that might not be, but I think that is for you. I think you like the soul satisfying, but I’m also not super emotional.
Allison Tyler Jones: I don’t want to talk like Sue Bryce because I’m not Sue Bryce. I love to listen to her and I believe her, and I think anybody that goes into her studio and gets their hair and makeup and spends half a day feels like a goddess. But I’m like, get out of my studio. I can’t have your hair and makeup people in here all day because I can’t shoot more people. That’s not me. I also want naughty kids. I love the crazy.
Anna Kraft: You would love my children.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love crazy boys. I tend to attract that. And I’m not saying that my way is the right way. I’m just saying that the truly successful, I believe it has to be your own.
Anna Kraft: True to you. Yes, absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: Your own.
Anna Kraft: Absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: And that won’t look like anybody else’s.
Anna Kraft: Right. And I think that there’s something in me, there’s definitely something in me that has longed for that prestige, that the top level.
Allison Tyler Jones: You have it. Your brand has it. I’m just telling you.
Anna Kraft: Thank you.
Allison Tyler Jones: No, it does. I’m surprised. You and I before, if we cut this up and use it, I just have to say, this is the first time you and I have ever spoken to each other. So I didn’t really know anything about your business and then we started recording this. And so all of this information is new to me. I feel like it would be, I would leave you bleeding by the side of the road, not a good Samaritan if I did not say these words to you.
Anna Kraft: Thank you.
Allison Tyler Jones: And when I looked at your Instagram feed before and the things that you have put out there, your brand is prestige.
Anna Kraft: Thank you.
Allison Tyler Jones: Before you changed anything, before you archived anything, you have that already. So I think that you-
Anna Kraft: That’s really encouraging because right before this, I had a former client be an absolute with me. She-
Allison Tyler Jones: That happens.
Anna Kraft: Yeah, I didn’t see it coming from her. She came in 2019 and did family portraits. They got a 40 by 40 wall piece, two 20 by 30s with matting in a box, and they spent $8,000 after taxes. Then she came back and she did a mini session with me, spent about $1,500 or something. Then she did another family session. So this is over the course of several years. Then she did a family session, spent a few grand. Well, she got a divorce which is always fun. And now one of those 20 by 30s that she purchased that are hanging on the wall, she wants to replace them with a new picture. And so my quote for that with my prices now to just do a whole new piece would be like $6,000. But I gave her a discount and she also has a gift card.
Anna Kraft: I told her, “Well, you paid 1,600 for this piece four years ago, so I’ll do it for that price again. I’ll reprint it.” Dude, she lost it. She lost it. She sent me this email and I just got off the phone with her and she basically wanted to only pay for it with her gift card. She did not want to do anything. I went and I picked up the portrait. I went to take it to see if it could be reframed, it could. I did all this back and forth. I did editing on a new picture that she wanted, and she was like, “I can’t pay that.” She was threatening to try and file a claim from two years ago for the guy who bought her the gift card to get his money back. We went around and around three times and then finally I was like, “Fine, I’ll have the portrait sent to you and you can reframe it.” Done. Bye. And it’s unsettling when something like that happens. And when someone so deeply devalues and disrespects you.
Allison Tyler Jones: It makes you doubt yourself.
Anna Kraft: It makes you doubt yourself. But I was very professional with her and I explained, I’m not selling molding. I’m not selling paper. She asked me for my hard costs. She wanted to know what my margin was. And I was like, “Respectfully, that’s very disrespectful to ask.” So it’s unsettling. It shakes you up a little bit to have someone so deeply devalue you and discard you like that as an artist because we’re so tied to our work and we so deeply value relationships. So yeah, it’s really encouraging. Your words are like, they’re like a balm for my soul, my bleeding heart.
Allison Tyler Jones: I’m just saying I think visually and the style and everything, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater on this one. I think I just feel strongly about that for you, your work was beautiful. I think you can just get rid of the things that didn’t serve you. You don’t need to shoot for half a day and have the hair and makeup order. You can still have that style. You can still have the thing that made Anna, and then if you’re doing this other style with Jeff or whatever, then make that yours as quickly as you possibly can. Because I think that everything is going to date a little bit.
Anna Kraft: At some point. Yes.
Allison Tyler Jones: As far as just haircuts, but the more classic. But one thing that never dates is love and expression.
Anna Kraft: I love that.
Allison Tyler Jones: And you have that in spades. So I think when we’re looking at a lot of education, the temptation is, okay, this guy has, this girl has the proforma, they’ve shown that they’re successful. I need to do it exactly like they’re doing it. And it’s like, well, that was successful for them. But how do you make that for you? How do you make that true to you?
Anna Kraft: Right, right. Yeah. And that’s definitely something that I’ve always done. If something is not working for me, I discard it pretty quickly. And I do try to adapt teachings to what works for me. Does this feel natural for me? If it’s an unnatural fit, I don’t force it.
Allison Tyler Jones: Smart.
Anna Kraft: I will follow something in my way and I will make adjustments as needed. For example, when I first started talking with Jeff and he said to take down their credit card information, I didn’t do it because I was like, that’s kind of weird. Why do you want to do that? And then I realized, oh, I need to really do. But then there have been other things. He has a very certain style of gift certificate that he sends out, and that is not my style at all. And so I have found a style that works for me that I think communicates that prestige a little bit more. My inspirations visually, some of my inspirations are firstly Ralph Lauren. That is a huge source of inspiration to me. Their equestrian line, their all American line, not so much their polo line, although I like that.
Anna Kraft: So love Ralph Lauren from the conception till now. It’s just, I love it. And then Restoration Hardware, I feel like their classic moment was maybe about 10 years ago when it was a lot of plaster and leather, that is my brand. Give me all of the leather, give me the plaster walls. Love it. And so that is what I’ve really tried to emulate in my brand. And I’m still trying to see how that works with some of these new techniques that I’m learning and how can I incorporate, so I’m investing in some new props and the place where I shoot at Sorento Farms, they have some tables and chairs that I’ll use to explore this new style. What is going to make Anna Kraft Fine Art now recognizable? Incorporating books and that types of thing. Lighting a little bit differently, putting vflats on the edges of the background.
Anna Kraft: The black one, the black side, not the white side to darken and add a vignette to keep it a little bit more moody. Exploring, I think more classic editing. Before I would do a lot of desaturation and apply the channel mixer, I would apply the channel mixer on luminosity to deepen the skin tones. So maybe updating the editing a little bit. Maybe not that desaturated look like you would find at Banana Republic, but now more like true skin tones. Something that’s more classic that isn’t going to age like sepia. So that’s where I am now. I’m exploring and refining this new style and I know that it can be done. It’s hard to do that on a dime when you have limited resources and you’re exploring a new marketing strategy and the marketing isn’t always working every single time. But there are some Mayhew backdrops that I’m looking at that I know. I’m like, those are going to be my next style. That’s going to be a winner for me.
Allison Tyler Jones: There’s no marketing that works every time. Right?
Anna Kraft: Right. Well, and so that’s the thing for sure too, is that I’m giving this its shot and I’m going to explore this.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love that.
Anna Kraft: This fine art brand that’s next level up. And if it doesn’t work, I can always unarchive my other brand.
Allison Tyler Jones: I think that it can work. I just want you, again, we don’t know each other. This is the first conversation we’ve ever had in our lives together. It is one of my core beliefs is that everybody has a unique gift. Everyone has a unique gift. And then let’s just bring it down to photographers in our industry. Portrait photographers. And I really believe that there’s room enough for everybody. And I really believe that we are all a market of one, and we can learn from each other and we can learn best practices and that we can learn little slivers of like, ooh, that Jeff Lubin marketing thing was amazing. And I learned from Bradford Rowley about this and I learned from Sue Bryce about this and on and on. But there has to be at some point a filtering process where you’re running that through. How does this feel to me?
Allison Tyler Jones: And sometimes you’re scared to try something like the credit card thing. Oh, I don’t want to do that. That just felt weird. But dude, you got to get paid. So find a way to say that in a way that’s true for you. And so that’s so much of what I attribute to my own success is that I found ways, if it’s something that I really did have to do, you actually have to collect money. You actually have to have a sales conversation. You actually have to ask for the business. But how can I say it in a way that’s true to me and that is informative of my client to my client and makes us all get on the same page? Rather than I’m speaking this prestige language that doesn’t sound like me at all.
Anna Kraft: Right. Yes.
Allison Tyler Jones: Does that make sense?
Anna Kraft: Absolutely. And so here’s something that you don’t know about me. Well, actually you may because I did make this a public post, but I was raised in a super conservative Christian home. I didn’t have a car until I was 21 or license until I was 21. We lived in the country. I couldn’t leave. I didn’t have a lot of friends. In fact, I had one friend. We lived on 13 acres kind of in the middle of nowhere. And I grew up extremely, I’m not going to share this on Facebook because my parents are going to hear this, but I was very stifled.
Allison Tyler Jones: In a bubble. In a bubble.
Anna Kraft: Yeah. I was totally in a bubble. I had no social life. I could not talk to people my age. I didn’t know how to carry on a conversation. When my boyfriend and I started dating, now, my husband, he thought that I didn’t like him because I wasn’t talking. I didn’t know how to talk. I didn’t know how to have a relationship. I didn’t know how to have a conversation. And so I have learned so much and I have had to be so brave in talking to people and in having these conversations and then learning to present myself in a way that’s like, I’ve got my life together. I very much do not. So truly photography for me, it started out as a hiding mechanism because it was a way that I could interact with the world around me without having to talk to people and feel awkward.
Allison Tyler Jones: Interesting.
Anna Kraft: And now it has been how I have grown as a person and how I have learned how to have conversations and to have really hard conversations and to stand up for myself and to experience rejection without knowing that I myself am rejected by God. So it has been such a growing process personally as well as professionally in that way.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah. Well, I see the bravery and I see there’s a spark, there’s a through line that is very… And it’s not the Sue Bryce and it’s not anybody that you’ve learned from, it’s you. It comes through on Instagram obviously because that’s where I’ve seen you. I think you’re a genius with words. So I guess really what I just want to say to you is that you have this within you to do this. And so learn, but figure out-
Anna Kraft: But preserve.
Allison Tyler Jones: Anna filter. I think I really would love for you to spend, even if you can’t spend a day, but spend a few hours and just figure out what are your non-negotiables? What do you just would love to do and what do you not want to have? For me, in that situation you just described with that client, it’s like non-negotiable is like if people are rude and mean, I don’t want to deal with people like that.
Anna Kraft: Right. Absolutely.
Allison Tyler Jones: And so then how do I structure the conversation so that everything is so transparent so that we don’t have that? Or whatever. So anyway, I’m excited for your changes. I can see the bravery and that now that you explain how you’ve been grown up, I think many of us grow up in a bubble in a lot of ways, especially if we have the privilege to do so. And at some point our bubble needs to be burst and we need to see the way that the world is and have a little bit of reality. But I see really great things ahead for you. And I think that a year from now, hopefully you’ll look back on this conversation and say I’m so glad that I made my Anna filter because that’s your way forward in my mind. I think you’re going to learn a lot of techniques and a lot of different things, but it is the core of what is true to you is the way forward.
Anna Kraft: What do you think that filter is mostly? Do you think it is the camera room, the editing, the words on the website? All of it obviously.
Allison Tyler Jones: I think your words, and I think fashion, just when you’re talking about Ralph Lauren and Restoration Hardware and all of these different things, I think you love that, but you have your own version of that. There are things that you’ve picked out of Sue’s work. There’s things that you’ve picked out of these different places. And so what is that? I think that’s the thing that’s going to define this is something that nobody else has. This is signature Anna Kraft. It could be a combination creatively, it could be a combination of those things. But at the core, you’ve just said many of them, you’ve just said family.
Anna Kraft: Family.
Allison Tyler Jones: There are just certain things that are bedrock to who you are. For me, my words, my pillars, if you will, are I want people that truly are family lovers. I actually don’t want the aspirational that think this is what rich people do because those people are not secure in themselves and they’re just trying to figure out what everybody else is doing. And actually those clients that I’ve had like that are like, “Well, we came in because so-and-so did it. And we saw an Allison Tyler Jones on their wall. And so we want ours to be bigger and better.” And I’m like, “Okay, I’ll do whatever you want.” You can still make a sale out of that. But that’s not at the heart level. That’s not my clientele that really vibes with me. My clientele that really vibes with me is a mom that comes in and is irrationally in love with their kids, but they’re also very clear-eyed about this one is a fricking nightmare and he’s going to be taking the drywall off your walls.
Allison Tyler Jones: And I’m like, well, he’ll be my favorite. They’re just real. And that’s my work is it’s real. There’s not the perfect posing with the hand in the right place. And I’m never going to win a PPA print competition. It’s not going to happen. Never. But what I am going to win is that when that woman is laying in her death bed and all of her kids bring in her family portraits like we did for my mom when she was dying, she’s going to look at those pictures and say that is absolutely that kid’s personality. That’s absolutely who they are. That’s true. And that’s freaking timeless. And so to me, it’s like authentic expression in a finished product and a relationship over a period of time. So if you don’t want authentic expression and real personality, if you don’t want to see your real kids, you don’t want me. If you don’t want stuff on the wall, you don’t want me. And if you don’t want a relationship over a long period of time, you really don’t want me either, because I need to see your kids grow up.
Anna Kraft: Yes. I love that. Yeah. I think I love your style. I think there are two styles, and neither one is bad. Neither one is wrong, I should say. Because there’s the style that’s like, this is us on the day-to-day, just insanity and chaos. But then there’s also, there’s the essence of a person that can be captured in beauty and in a classic, masterful way.
Allison Tyler Jones: Absolutely.
Anna Kraft: I think that those, they can exist inside the same person. They can exist inside the same family. Because when I see the portrait of me and my three sons on the wall, and we’re all sitting there smiling beautifully, and my one son is like, he’s got his little foot stance funny. And then my oldest son is giving me his little, I’m too cool for this smile. It’s a beautiful portrait.
Allison Tyler Jones: But you still see the personality.
Anna Kraft: You see the personality and it’s posed, but it’s beautiful. And I see each child for who they are. We don’t always look like that, but that is reality. That’s a side of it that not everybody sees. A lot of people see the chaos and they see the expression, they judge you for it. That’s a whole other story. But then there’s this beauty that often I think only moms see, only the parent sees. Beauty of having your two-year-old hug you around the neck when he wakes up in the morning and just hold onto you. And that’s all he wants. That beauty can be captured in a beautiful portrait together. And that I think is what I want to capture. I would love to be that sort of like, I would love to be you. I would love to capture and to do what you, but there’s only one you and I think you do it perfectly. No one else can be you. But I love to capture.
Allison Tyler Jones: And no one can be you.
Anna Kraft: And no one can be me. But I want to capture that beautiful, regal. This is us at our best.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yes.
Anna Kraft: This is us at our best.
Allison Tyler Jones: Okay, so that’s it. That’s your through line. And then how are you doing that? So I think you have it, but what I’m saying to you is don’t search for prestige because you already have it.
Anna Kraft: Well, thank you. That means a lot.
Allison Tyler Jones: You already have it. Don’t start laying on words that are not true to Anna. Don’t start talking in somebody else’s language. Speak your language because you, and I wouldn’t say this probably to another photographer that doesn’t have your word skills, but I think you have very strong written communication, very strong. It makes you feel something when you read it, you can see it. It’s an unusual ability. And so I would definitely lean into that. And then the work is beautiful and you’re going to find your way. But I do think it’s going to be an amalgam of your previous style with what is now. I think those two are going to-
Anna Kraft: I think so. I think that you’re right about that. And I’ve sensed that. I just haven’t figured out what that is yet.
Allison Tyler Jones: Yeah, yeah. But it’s coming.
Anna Kraft: It will. Yeah.
Allison Tyler Jones: You’ll know it when you see it. We all have it. Those moments where you’re like, oh, okay, this, and it’s in editing. For me, it’s in editing, meaning in culling.
Anna Kraft: The person’s style who I really love. And I’m actually, I’m not trying to be like Jeff’s style so much as I am just trying to understand the techniques.
Allison Tyler Jones: Sure. The classical portraiture.
Anna Kraft: Why does this picture work? Tell me why it works and figure that out. But the person whose work I really love is William Branson, and I really love the portraits of the little children that he does, the little boys and girls and their little heirloom gowns on the chairs with the flowers in the background. I love it. I love it so much. And so that is actually style-wise, more what I’m trying to emulate. And I haven’t quite gotten there yet. And I’m not sure what is holding me back, but I’m working through it because that’s my next uplevel for sure.
Allison Tyler Jones: I love it. I love it. Well, you’re a girl with a plan and you’re on a mission, and I am expecting great things. I’m just going to sit back here with my popcorn and watch it happen. But I would love to follow up with you and just see how you’re doing. And I appreciate you doing this because this is a vulnerable thing to say the things. A mentor that I had early on who was actually coincidentally from Texas, I was meeting with her and I’m like, “I just don’t know. I’m trying this and I’m trying this, and I just don’t know what to do.” And she just put her hand on my hand and she said, “Honey, you can’t see the label from inside the bottle.”
Allison Tyler Jones: And she’s like, “You can’t see that you have it. You have it and you’re going to do great, and someday I’ll be working for you.” Which she was just was funny. But her being able to say that to me didn’t make me think I was all that, but it did make me think, okay, maybe she’s right that I can do this. And so you’ve already had many moments like that. I’m just want to give you another one from an older mom and an older photographer that I see you and I see great things ahead for you. You have it and so just don’t get too far off the… Keep on the Anna train.
Anna Kraft: I love that.
Allison Tyler Jones: Stay true to who you are.
Anna Kraft: It’s very insightful.
Allison Tyler Jones: Well, I appreciate you being here.
Recorded: You can find more great resources from Allison at dotherework.com and on Instagram at Do.The.Rework.
Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler-Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait photographers…
Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, A podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait…
Recorded: Welcome to The ReWork with Allison Tyler Jones, a podcast dedicated to inspiring portrait…